Why this incarnation? Memories... (Spoilers)

Darpaek · #1 (**permalink**) 09-11-2007, 05:13 PM

I've never been able to figure out why this incarnation of the Nameless One doesn't lose his memory when he dies (after he wakes up in the Mortuary at the beginning of the game).

Did I just miss a line of dialogue somewhere? Can anyone explain?

GawainBS · #2 (**permalink**) 09-14-2007, 04:05 AM

Two reasons I can think of: your companions are with you, they can tell what happened and you got a journal.
But it's explicitly stated that this time you didn't forget... Wasn't it something with those Shadows? Didn't they "drain" your memories, each time? Not sure about this. Hard to explain, since you forgot everything the first time Ravel killed you...

Vladimir · #3 (**permalink**) 09-20-2007, 08:05 PM

I believe an in-game explanation involves the manner of your death. The more traumatic the death the greater chance of loosing yourself.

Star Trek rules also apply: The Enterprise moves at the speed of a plot.

C-K'R[PhoEniX] · #4 (**permalink**) 09-23-2007, 02:43 PM

I am playing the game right now and I think there is an explanation. When you find the journal (dedocahedron) of one of your previous incarnations, it mentions that this psychotic incarnation somehow found out that after he died a couple more times, he would stop losing memories, but he also pointed out that he didn't want to die because he would no longer be himself then. That may be it, although I can't remember if the reasons why the NO would stop losing memories were also mentioned.

Nightmare · #5 (**permalink**) 10-14-2007, 12:22 AM

Its been a while, but I'm fairly certain you only forget if you're killed by Shadows. Their being sent at you so that you don't remember who IS sending them at you (TTO).

I remember, for some reason, this being in a conversation with Nordom.

Thrifalas · #6 (**permalink**) 10-19-2007, 01:59 AM

MAJOR SPOILERIFFIC POST

Interesting topic, seeing how you can only get "game over" in Fortress of Regrets, the place where you actually are killed by shadows. If that means that you get a Game Over because you loose your memory and it's impossible for you to get back onto track, you know TTO killed all your "guides"...

Whoa. If that's true, another well-thought out thing in this intense masterpiece ^^

phelot43 · #7 (**permalink**) 11-18-2007, 12:12 AM

My first play though this game, I thought the incarnations lost their memory only when they died in The Fortress of Regrets. Obviously this isn't the case.

If I had to guess then you might lose them only if killed by shadows and there's no companions around to fend them off? In other words, maybe they do something to you after you die?

This seems unlikely, because I think Morte mentions a few incarnations that died such as the insano that wanted to smash Morte and eat him. This incarnation was smashed by a runaway cart or something and died, but Morte never mentions that memories were lost...

As someone else said, the most likely reason is that only traumatic deaths will cause the memory loss.

Good thread BTW!

TheCrazdPariah · #8 (**permalink**) 02-25-2008, 08:27 AM

But don't forget that the first incarnation lost his memories after being killed by Ravel. The nameless one loses his memory because of the ritual as it has something to do with forgetting how to die. I don't know enough to say why this particular incarnation doesn't lose his memories, perhaps its a prophecy or one of the powers is tampering. Hope this helps.

Brother None · #9 (**permalink**) 02-25-2008, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darpaek

I've never been able to figure out why this incarnation of the Nameless One doesn't lose his memory when he dies (after he wakes up in the Mortuary at the beginning of the game).

Did I just miss a line of dialogue somewhere? Can anyone explain?

Here's MCA's spoiler-heavy official explanation when I asked him that question:
Every time the Nameless One dies before the start of the game, his personality is erased. This is the result of the magic that the night hag Ravel performed on him to make him immortal, since everything Ravel did always had a brutal drawback that unmakes all her altruistic efforts. She discovered that he lost his memory after she “tested” her work by killing the player - the player woke up and had forgotten her and the reason he had asked for immortality in the first place. Rinse and repeat for a few thousand incarnations or more.

As the start of the game, however, Ravel's "blessing" is breaking down, and the Nameless One is actually able to remember his previous deaths up until the start of the game. Ironically, this coincides with the fact that his mental degradation is also escalating, and the longer he is killed and reborn, he will eventually become nothing more than a mindless zombie that is impossible to kill. Once he loses his will, there will be no way for him to save himself - or at least discover what drove him to this state. The events of the game is his last chance in his lifetimes to put things right.

Thrasher91604 · #10 (**permalink**) 02-25-2008, 11:52 AM

Still really don't have a good in game explanation of why dying in the Fortress of Regrets is game ending.

I believe everywhere else, dying is not game ending.

Why would death by shadows in the Fortress of Regrets be considered more "traumatic" than death by Moridor's box demon, for example, or shadows in Sigil, or ...? I just don't buy the trauma explanation.

What makes more sense, is because there are no companions to be there when you revive. But you still have your journal with you. I suppose the shadows in the Fortress of Regret could be smart enough to destroy your journal.

But, consider if Morte got killed, and you have no companions. Dying in Sigil wouldn't be permanent. Which makes sense because of the Dustman guy with big book looking out for you. But what if you died someplace else, like the Modron Cube. No companions, no dustmen, yet you awake with all your memories, I believe...

There just doesn't seem to be a consistent explanation.

TheCrazdPariah · #11 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 08:22 PM

Don't you die permenently because you are cut off from the planes. I don't know exactly why by getting killed by shadows could kill you because I thought the sword was supposed to be the only thing that could permently kill you. I guess because the shadows are connected with you and since you are seperated from the planes, it allows them to permently kill you same as the sword. Hope this helps.

Thrasher91604 · #12 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 09:14 PM

Isn't the Fortress in the negative plane?

Crenshinibon · #13 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 09:41 PM

When the Nameless One dies, someone living dies instead of him, thus giving him new life.

As he is cut off from the planes, that effect can't trigger and besides, there's nothing really "alive" on the Negative plane that would be able to take his place in death.

Brother None · #14 (**permalink**) 02-27-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crenshinibon

When the Nameless One dies, someone living dies instead of him, thus giving him new life.

As he is cut off from the planes, that effect can't trigger and besides, there's nothing really "alive" on the Negative plane that would be able to take his place in death.

Yip, I believe that's the explanation for that particular one.

Even if it wasn't, if you die in the Fortress of Regrets, well, you're on the Transcendent One's turf, aren't you? Considering he spent the game following you and killing off all clues you left, don't you think he might be quite willing and able to remove all remaining hints and dump you back?

Thrasher91604 · #15 (**permalink**) 02-27-2008, 02:50 PM

Yep, that makes the most sense. I think there could be other mortals on the Negative plane, travelers like Cambrian.

No companions to help you, and the Transcendant One who will do his best to make sure you don't remember. Keeping TNO from remembering though is still a bit vague. Maybe TTO can make TNO's death traumatic enough to insure he forgets?