Major change to upcoming Fixpack

[VonDondu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwinn Besides, CA -did- confirm that the hit point thing is a bug, so that one absolutely has to be fixed. Fixing that without fixing the THACO bug, however, would make the imbalance created by the THACO bug exponentially worse, and that makes the THACO issue even more obviously a bug. I would not be willing to fix the HP bug without also fixing the THACO bug, it would just break the game worse. They pretty much have to go together. Qwinn

If you want to change TNO's THAC0 whenever he changes his class, then you should also change his weapon proficiencies, since they have a dramatic effect on his combat ability. For example, he should start with only one proficiency point when he becomes a 1st level Mage, and then he should gain another proficiency point at 6th level and so forth, exactly like other Infinity Engine games based on Second Edition rules. When TNO's Mage level exceeds his Fighter level by at least one level, I think he should recover all of his abilities from his Fighter class, just like any other dual-classed character. I don't see any reason why he shouldn't.

[Qwinn]

There is ample in-game and manual evidence that weapon proficiencies were intended to work as they do for all classes. It is in fact because of our respect for that specific intent that TNO's number of attacks will continue to be determined by fighter level and active in all his classes... this is due to an unavoidable engine limitation (or, at least, very difficult to change).

We could fix the Mage-Gets-Fighter-Number-Of-Attacks issue right now anyway, and make him not gain number of attacks from his fighter levels as a thief or mage, but then we'd have to disable bonuses from weapon proficiencies too, and as that has been deemed intended, we're not going to go that far. So, yes, TNO will still gain that benefit from the fighter class in all classes, just not practically -all- of them.

It is that same limitation, by the way, that explains why Swashbucklers in BG2 can specialize in thief weapons but do not gain the extra number of attack bonus that should go with it. They couldn't give them the proficiency bonus without also giving them the bonus fighter attacks at level 7 and 13. It's either both or neither in that regard. Since the intent was that TNO is supposed to get the bonus from proficiencies, the designers decided to go with "both" for him, and I'm respecting that intent as well.

That limitation is also why Ignus and Fall from Grace, as the only two non-fighter NPC's, never get more than one proficiency point. If they did, they'd have to get fighter number of attacks as well.

Fighters DO still get to specialize -more- than other classes, if you specialize in that class at 7 and 12. If you don't do that, you max out at 3 proficiencies. It appears to me that that was their decision on how to deal with the limitation. Works for me.

The intent isn't to make him compliant with 2nd Ed. D&D rules (though in bug issues where there isn't enough evidence of designer intent to determine one way or the other, that's what we will go with). TNO clearly is meant to break all sorts of 2nd Ed. rules. The intent is to make him operate under the rules that the designers intended, and in the issues in question, the designer's intent was quite clear. And from the previously cited evidence, the intent was that TNO is not a dual class or a multi-class character... he is single class, but due to his unique history he can switch back and forth between three classes. He is unique. As a multiclass fighter mage, he really isn't.

I know that's a lot of explanation to go through... sorry, hope I explained it non-confusingly enough.

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

If anyone here is still interested, there's a sneak peek of the new version's ReadMe and full changelog available here:

New Fixpack 3.0 Readme - Sneak Peek - Spellhold Studios

Qwinn