My Comments on Planescape Torment II

CannibalBob · #1 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 10:42 PM

I think a Planescape Torment sequel would be a bad idea. PS:T wrapped itself up nicely at the end, and a sequel just wouldn't seem to fit.

A "prequel" could be made, but again, it would just seem to be a "money-making scheme" to prey on the PS:T-lovers. Sure, they could make a game for every Nameless One incarnate there was. Wow, that'd be a lot of games.

But on the other hand, I think a Planescape-based game would be GREAT! There are a lot of games out now in the Forgotten Realms, and it's getting very repetitive!

Some say they can't because Planescape is 2nd edition D&D, but there is a 3rd edition out...

Anyway, a Planescape game would be great. To hell with sales! Quality is what makes a game good... developers seem to have forgotten that these years.

Vicsun · #2 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CannibalBob
I think a Planescape Torment sequel would be a bad idea. PS:T wrapped itself up nicely at the end, and a sequel just wouldn't seem to fit.

A "prequel" could be made, but again, it would just seem to be a "money-making scheme" to prey on the PS:T-lovers. Sure, they could make a game for every Nameless One incarnate there was. Wow, that'd be a lot of games.

But on the other hand, I think a Planescape-based game would be GREAT! There are a lot of games out now in the Forgotten Realms, and it's getting very repetitive!

Some say they can't because Planescape is 2nd edition D&D, but there is a 3rd edition out...

Anyway, a Planescape game would be great. To hell with sales! Quality is what makes a game good... developers seem to have forgotten that these years.

The ending was quite open actually as the Nameless One went serving in the Blood War. That's more of a beginning than an end. And with all the informaiton about the War and all the warnings against it, it just seems an obvious choice that we should be able to participate in it.

Non of this matters though as there won't be a sequel to PS:T or another game set in the Planescape universe. Ever. Not only does Black Isle no longer exist but also currently there is no gaming company that owns the rights to the planescape universe.

fable · #3 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 08:12 AM

I'm moving this over to the Game Discussion forum.

CannibalBob · #4 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 08:56 AM

Yes but the Blood War has been going on for thousands of years! It's impossible for the Nameless One to get out of it, but only to continually die over and over! So in my opinion, he's stuck there.

He literally has gone to hell. I doubt anyone would go to hell to find them, as they risk getting stuck there for eternity. Hell is a large place. Sure Morte or Annah or anyone else might go there to find the NO, but they will most likely die.

fable · #5 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CannibalBob
Yes but the Blood War has been going on for thousands of years! It's impossible for the Nameless One to get out of it, but only to continually die over and over! So in my opinion, he's stuck there.

You forget that he's got high friends in both high and low places.

With his skills and contacts and revived knowledge of all his lives, the NO would stand a better chance of surviving the Blood Wars than probably anybody else in the field.

CannibalBob · #6 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 03:35 PM

You don't understand. The Blood War has been going on for thousands of years, it's nothing small. The two primary evils of the world are going at a huge battle! The NO would have to be a god or something in order to survive! He's defininitely not a god.

It's just that a sequel would seem kinda dumb, since there's not enough content to make a game as good as PS:T. You already know all about the NO's history and such, and you can't just regurgitate it. A sequel would be more of a story, not about finding out what is going on, what's happened before, etc. and therefore it wouldn't be as good as PS:T.

I just wanted to say that PS:T2 would be not as good as PS:T, no matter what you do, so a game based in the Planescape universe would be good. Nothing wrong with making new characters and such, that's what D&D is all about, anyway.

fable · #7 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CannibalBob
You don't understand. The Blood War has been going on for thousands of years, it's nothing small. The two primary evils of the world are going at a huge battle! The NO would have to be a god or something in order to survive! He's defininitely not a god.

Yes, I do understand, I tell you!

Of course he's not a god. But powers are over-rated, unless you spend too much time thinking comic books are real life--which is any time at all. Skills and contacts are far more important, and at the end of PS:T, the NO has *all* his previous and current skills restored, plus *all* the knowledge he's formerly possessed. He's a walking encyclopedia, impossibly strong in all three professions, and has more contacts than Donald Trump. He doesn't have to be a god to make it through the Blood Wars. He only has to call in some of the hundreds of favors he's got hanging out there to get anything he wants. Such, at least, is my take on matters.

CannibalBob · #8 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 07:12 PM

He still has loads of powerful enemies too, I'm sure they won't just dismiss the fact that the NO is in the Lower Planes and is trying to escape.

The fact that he's a walking encyclopaedia means nothing when he's in hell, it's mostly his powers and contacts, but as I said, there are also enemies...

And I don't think you're truly grasping how horrendous and HUGE this "war" is. I doubt there is an english word to describe the Blood War. "Feud" doesn't match. "War" doesn't work either. This war is between the two worse evils in existence, one is cunning, the other is brute. And this Blood War has been lasting for 1,000's of years! Thousands, not "A" thousand, not 2 thousand, but just "Thousands". I doubt anyone has kept track, and I doubt anyone has gone to the lower planes and back, and has accurate knowledge of how long it has lasted. For all we know, it could have lasted a billion years.

It just seems preposterous that one man can escape the grasp of a huge, monsterous, 1,000's-of-years-lasting war that is taking place between the two worse types of evil!

fable · #9 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 07:34 PM

And I don't think you're truly grasping how horrendous and HUGE this "war" is.

Suggesting that one's opponent in an argument can't "grasp" the magnitude of the discussion--hence, the opposition--is critically flawed. You have no evidence concerning my imaginative or factual grasp whatever. Merely because I disagree with you does not automatically mean I'm limited in scope. People can disagree and both be right, particularly where fictional matters of no real import are concerned.

As for words lacking "in English" to describe the Blood War--come on. For one thing, English is no weaker as a language than any other, unless you're looking at anthropo-linguistic concepts such as John Woodruffe's claim (in his Shakti and Shakta) that there 26 words equivalent to the English "mind" in specific Hindustani dialects. Second, I am quite capable of comprehending an unending war fueled by near-immortal symbolic archtypes; I've written published fiction along these lines. I hope this reassures you. If it doesn't, I'd like to suggest that you may not be imaginative enough to conceive of all the social and organizational details that would allow such a battle to be fought, and how select individuals might survive.

Speaking of which, do you remember the fellow who talks at the Sensate's hall about having taken part in the Blood Wars? And he survived. Survival is possible, though highly unlikely, but chance, luck, and knowledge is essential. Some beings make it through, and I suspect the NO would be top of the list to come out of it with the "I Survived the Blood War" teeshirt intact.

Note, both of us are right, and wrong, because these are speculations based on sketched concepts in a game. If you want to perfectly, utterly, solely correct, best meet me on a field of math.

CannibalBob · #10 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 08:31 PM

That's what I'm talking about, the war being infinitely huge and that it seems impossible for one individual to survive.

And the guy in the Senate Hall, he truly went to the Blood War and survived? It seemed to me that this person was merely babbling, that he was crazy. He could have just had dreams, or heard all about the Blood War from some Lower Plane creature.

So the NO could survive the Blood War, but it's highly unlikely since he also has a large amount of powerful enemies who are eager for revenge. They surely would leap at the chance when they find out the NO is in the Blood War...

Too bad BIS is gone now. I truly want to see where they would go with this story. It seems to me that the NO is doomed, and even if he does get out of the Blood War, where would the story continue on? Is there enough content to make a full blown RPG? Personally, I don't think so, but BIS are creative people.

BTW, what field of math? I'm not a huge English major, I guess that's why I'm in engineering.

fable · #11 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 08:39 PM

And the guy in the Senate Hall, he truly went to the Blood War and survived? It seemed to me that this person was merely babbling, that he was crazy. He could have just had dreams, or heard all about the Blood War from some Lower Plane creature.

He is presented as an extremely knowledgeable veteran, to whom the NO can ask repeated questions. He gives plenty of excellent advice on the Blood War from a variety of perspectives. It seems to me that the game's designers might know just a bit more than either of us about their product; and they evidently felt that some people could return from the War.

You are welcome to disagree with them.

(I meant that I'm extremely bad at math--reread what I wrote.)

CannibalBob · #12 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 08:44 PM

Well so they can return from the Blood War. It may not be exactly what I'm thinking it is, I guess I'll find out more when I replay PS:T in the future.

I just thought the Senate character was a bit barmy, as Morte seemed to like making jokes about him.

Perhaps I should read some Planescape books, they can definitely elaborate on this subject. Specifically the D&D Planescape books can give some info.

fable · #13 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 09:03 PM

I've never read any PS:T books. Just my POV--but all those TSR-hired hacks (and other hacks, hired to write books for very low wages set in somebody else's world) are so much conveyor belt fantasy. Others obviously disagree with me, and there's a ton of marketing money behind 'em; so make your own mind up about the stuff.

As regards the veteran, he's in one of those first group of rooms to your right, after you enter the building. Wish I could remember his name, but at some point you begin asking questions that are so pointed that he begins to think you look familiar, and could swear you'd fought in those wars, yourself. As I recall, the NO actually did fight in the Blood Wars, and you get a bit of experience when you bring the memory to the surface.

CannibalBob · #14 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 09:31 PM

Yes I very much remember the person, alas not his name though. Now that you say it, I do remember the NO fighting in the Blood Wars before.

When the NO goes to the Blood Wars in the end, is he just sent there, or is he banished there or what? The end movie just sorta shows pretty lights and then the NO is in the Blood Wars. Why did he get sent there, by whom?

fable · #15 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 11:33 PM

He was sent as a penance, but I don't recall who does it. Like you, I'd have to play it again to find out.