monkey grip good/bad

[Darth Spawn]

is monkey grip worth getting im a rouge/fighter trying to be a black gaurd and im a noob so im asking should i get it

also post your own thoughts on this abillity / that is the question

[Trith]

Pound for pound MG is one of the worst feats in the game. It's a feat that basically allows you to gimp yourself by taking severe penalities to your attack. It may look neat to wield 2 2-handers or a 2-hander and a tower shield, but the negatives far outweight the coolness factor. Run screaming from this worthless feat and never look back.

[sort-vampyr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trith but the negatives far outweight the coolness factor. Run screaming from this worthless feat and never look back.

Just remember that coolness factor is very important -unless you're a munchkin-. Besides -2 to hit is'nt that bad! Lets say you've got a greatsword and do 2d6 damage... then you add another greatsword. I would say that it would be ok with -2 to hit if you get 2d6 extra damage instead. Yes -2 to hit is enough to be felt. Look at it this way: Two-weapon fighting is almost like doubling your damage- if we just pretend you can get another weapon like the one you've already got- you've just have to eat the penalties for two-weapon fighting- I think that alot people would agree with me when i say that two-weapon fighting is worth the penalties! But doubling your damage is alot more fun if you do alot of damage already- fx 1d4->2d4 is not as fun as 1d12->2d12- (you catch my drift?) You can use this feat to double your damage!-not exactly but close... not all bonuses add to off-hand weapons like they do to main hand weapons-. I know that adding another two-hand weapon is more than just -2 because you'll also have the two-weapon fighting penalties on top of that. But -2 to hit for dealing double damage with a high-damage weapon instead of double damage with a low-damage weapon is worth it!. And we haven't even got to talk about shields yet! Lets just skip the no-magical shields... No no-magical shield is worth -2 to hit... But lets say you've got a really good two-hand weapon and especially if you're specialized in it and the find a really good shield! Just the fact that it is possible to find/get a +5 heavy shield! Then trade -2 to hit for +7 ac... I think that thats an fair trade!

[Trith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sort-vampyr Just remember that coolness factor is very important -unless you're a munchkin-. Besides -2 to hit is'nt that bad! Lets say you've got a greatsword and do 2d6 damage... then you add another greatsword. I would say that it would be ok with -2 to hit if you get 2d6 extra damage instead. Yes -2 to hit is enough to be felt. Look at it this way: Two-weapon fighting is almost like doubling your damage- if we just pretend you can get another weapon like the one you've already got- you've just have to eat the penalties for two-weapon fighting- I think that alot people would agree with me when i say that two-weapon fighting is worth the penalties! But doubling your damage is alot more fun if you do alot of damage already- fx 1d4->2d4 is not as fun as 1d12->2d12- (you catch my drift?) You can use this feat to double your damage!-not exactly but close... not all bonuses add to off-hand weapons like they do to main hand weapons-. I know that adding another two-hand weapon is more than just -2 because you'll also have the two-weapon fighting penalties on top of that. But -2 to hit for dealing double damage with a high-damage weapon instead of double damage with a low-damage weapon is worth it!. And we haven't even got to talk about shields yet! Lets just skip the no-magical shields... No no-magical shield is worth -2 to hit... But lets say you've got a really good two-hand weapon and especially if you're specialized in it and the find a really good shield! Just the fact that it is possible to find/get a +5 heavy shield! Then trade -2 to hit for +7 ac... I think that thats an fair trade!

Maybe if you are a tank only..then yeah I could see it. But if you want to deal consistant damage against high AC you will never take anything that drops your to hit. It's not as bad in the OC where there are not a ton of high AC mobs, but in future expansions, PVP, PW, running into a high AC mob/character while carrying a couple of greatswords is a recipe for disaster.

[dutman]

lets be clear here, for the O.C. you don't really have to worry about gimping you character too much. I mean out of boredom i built a halfling barbarian wielding a long sword. Was is statistically smart? hell no. Was it funny YES. 4 and 1/2 feet for barbarian furry for the win.

[Snipercon]

Monkey Grip Bad

First, dual weilding with monkey grip is -6 to hit (-2 Monkey Grip -4 Dual Weild non-light weapons).

Second, while 2d12 is more impressive than 2d4 it is not quite as impressive compared to 2d10. You spend a feat on monkey grip, spend it on Exotic weapons and use a Katana or Bastard Sword (without and addtional -2 to hit).

Monkey Grip Good

In the scenario that you are a level 7 weapon master specializing in scythes, Dual Weilding two super critical awesome curved blade doombringers (scythes) is AWESOME!!! However this requires alot, no ALOT, no ALOT!, no

.A .L . OOO TTT !
AAA L . O O .T .!
A A LLL OOO .T .!

of feats. Specifically, weapon focus scythe; dodge; mobility; spring attack; weapon expertise; whirlwind attack; monkey grip; two weapon fighting; improved two weapon fighting; greater two weapon fighting. And since greater two weapon fighting requires 19 dexterity and scythes are not finessable you must have 11 levels in ranger. And since you want some other good feats such as: improved critical scythe; weapon specialization scythe; greater weapon focus scythe; power attack; improved power attack; cleave; great cleave; blind fight; you must have 2 levels of fighter.

SUMMARY

Monkey Grip - Ranger(11)/Fighter(2)/Weapon Master(7) dual weilding scythes GOOD
Monkey Grip - Everyone else BAD

[Cyrinn]

Haha....I agree with Snipercon. I read in the bioware forums where someone worked out the math over a certain amount of rounds and monkey grip dealt less damage than not using it.

If you want a statistically sound character I would pass, if you want to do it for fun or RP-ing, the go for it.

Just my 2 cents.

[Rockstarzc91]

I disagree. I had Bishop take up this feat, I then equiped him with two falchons. (I believe on of them is on fire, or maybe I just use flame weapon on him so much I'm used to seeing it that way XD) But the point it. He kicks some major ass with them. Granted he's a ranger and I believe his specialization was two weapon fighting but still. It's not that bad. I also gave my character (A druid) this feat and gave him a spear and a scimitar. And he does just fine thanks much. But it is all in preference. If you're going to be super nerd and bring out the math and logic into a game that's fine. But I also think monkey grip brings a lot of fun into the game. So go I say if it seem interesting go banana's. No pun intended of course.

[Claudius]

Actually Bishops ranger style is archery Its a miracle he hits anything while dual wielding falchion's but if you say he is kicking ass I believe it because the monster AC is pretty low. Thats why I don't stress too much over AB on some non ultimate builds I use.

Monkey Grip: VERY good if you use a large weapon and NEED shield AC. Your almost always better off taking Scimitar or Warhammer which you can do more damage with actually because you will hit* 10% more often. Exotic Weapon Bastard Sword/Dwarven War Axe is probably a better idea than monkey grip. I would use this feat mainly on stormlords who wield spears or characters wanting to take advantage of bugged epic weapon focus falchion (which still end result of 1.5 more avg damage than a scimitar AND costs 2 feats for that damage hehe).

* and confirm critical hits

[Rockstarzc91]

Oh really? Wow I had no idea it was archery. Well then that proves my point even more. Even with archery he still hits things with dual falchons. So monkey grip is not bad at all. And by the way good call on the Storm lord and dual spears.

[Claudius]

Reminds my of sir swoopy from unforgotten realms (the escapist.com)..

Penalty for dual wielding without feat -10
Penalty for unproficient -4

But he still always rolls 20s!

[Dysjong]

Hey there. I have been using GB for some good years and has been stalking the forums for info regarding diffrent games. Just felt that i had to reply on this thread.

To the one who made this post. If you would try that build of yours out, i would suggest that you should take the feat called able learner and start using skill points in Use magic device. This can help you with using scrolls and magic, that might be able to buff you up, so it can help you to hit, while wield a two handed wepon and a shield plus that it can help to use items that you might be able to without this skill.. If you go with duel wielding to handed wepons, you might get some penelties to hit but that is where use magic device can you help.

Monkey grip is not that bad. I mean it really depends on what you are looking for and what build you want. Im surprised to see that only one ever metioned a stormlord, a favored soul/stormlod is a grim sight. Yeah you will use feats to get monkey grip and to use tower shield but it is a little price to pay, for all the benefits this build gives.

First of all you will be able to cast spells like a sorcerers but just using cleric spells insted. Second you will get some good feats from the favored soul, like wepon focus, wepon specilization and improve critical if im not wrong. You will get some energy resist, which can help you last longer. The stormlord class makes you imun to ALL lightning attack, you can buff your spear, so it can do even more dmg and you can use Avatar as a spell like ability, which is normally a druid spell. Right now i cant remember if there is more this build can give but think it like this. By using this build and you are chosing mostly buff spells with some few heal spells, you will be able to trample through everything. I know there is a cleric spell which changes there base attack bonus to a fighters, which incresse there hit and tons of other spells they can use. All in all this build is very strong and is highly suggested to try out, for those who havent.

Monkey grip can also be used with either a barbarian or a frenzy berserker, sinds they have there rage and frenzy to buff there strenght up and we all know that strenght gives you more to hit and dmg.

Hope this help the author of this thread out.