Charisma + Warlock

[Solusek]

In which way does Charisma effectively affect a Warlock's spellcasting? Does it only modify the DC for saving throws against his Eldritch Powers or is there more to it? Thx in advance.

So long,
Sol

[Fljotsdale]

Like Sorcerers and Bards, Warlocks depend on Charisma for spellcasting, so you need it high. Also, considering Warlocks are seen as BAD, having a high Charisma has to be useful, huh? But you need to bump up your Diplomacy, Bluff, and probably Intimidate skills as well.

No good asking me about Difficulty Class, though. I'm rather dumb about D&D rules.

[Solusek]

Originally Posted by Fljotsdale

No good asking me about Difficulty Class, though. I'm rather dumb about D&D rules.

*sigh* Sorry, but please don't just copy from the manual if you yourself admit that you're "rather dumb" about D&D Rules. Charisma is used for Sorcerer and Bard Spellcasting, that's right. But unlike Bards and Sorcerers, Warlocks do not have a limited number of spells they can use per day but can use their invocations at will whenever they want to and how often they want to. For Sorcerers and Bards Charisma affects the number of spells they can cast per day for example, but since Warlocks have unlimited casts per day, that'd be quite useless. You're right about the skills a high charisma modifier boosts, but that's not different from ANY other class, even non-spellcasting ones. And whether you want to rely on social skills or on battle to solve situations does not necessarily depend on your class. Hope this helps you to understand my question better.

[Fljotsdale]

I didn't copy from the Manual. If it had been on paper instead of on disc, I probably would have, though. I just used my memory of reading the info on Warlocks in Char creation.

Forgive me for trying to be helpful. I'll also try not to answer any more questions you ask - if I remember your name!

I ran a Drow Warlock for 5 levels. Then quit because it was unsatisfactory.

So, since you DO know D&D rules, surely you already know the answer to your own question?

[Xandax]

Originally Posted by Solusek

In which way does Charisma effectively affect a Warlock's spellcasting? Does it only modify the DC for saving throws against his Eldritch Powers or is there more to it? Thx in advance.

So long,
Sol

Charisma modifies the DC for spells (when a check exists) and the bonuses gained from certain invocations also rely on charsima.
Nothing more as far as I know, no.

(And dexterity - naturally - for ranged touch checks)

[Acleacius]

I haven't played a Warlock, I was guessing it had an effect similar to Paladin's Turning allowing you to effect a higher number of mobs the higher your Charisma.
So the spell decriptions during level up, are not much help either I guess?


I use the Female starting outfit on my Wizzy, since its the best looking outfit I have seen in the game and I am sure the skin exposure has noting to do with it.

[Solusek]

Originally Posted by Xandax

Charisma modifies the DC for spells (when a check exists) and the bonuses gained from certain invocations also rely on charsima.
Nothing more as far as I know, no.

(And dexterity - naturally - for ranged touch checks)

Hmm... Do you think it's even worth maxing it out then? Or would you rather suggest to spend the stat points elsewhere? I have never spent my stat points other than in my main attribute but in this case I'm really sure if this would be wise.

So long,
Sol

[Xandax]

Well .... I don't really see much reason to spread out to much, most attributes give only a minor improvement on increase, so the DC increase is likely one of the better for the warlock. So I'd properly focus most on charisma when playing a spell casting/ranged touch warlock, and then dexterity to 16 or 18.
I do see much reason to go above 12 intelligence, unless you want many skills. Strength is only needed if you wish to meele damage as your companions can be "packhorses" and you do not need to carry much. Wisdom only for the savethrow which should/could be improved by items and feats anyway. Constitution is nice, but it is only tertiary.

But some of the warlocks invocations do seem that you can go high strength/con and then rely on your buff/shapechange in which case charisma is less needed.

So I'll advice you to look at which path you'll go (plan your character) and then the pieces will fall more in place I think.

[Siberys]

@Flojtsdale-

It's kind of rude of you to contribute a post that answers nothing about a persons question and then get defensive when he points that out. If you had no contribution to his answer, then there was no need for your first post, thus his indication, and your response with "So, since you DO know D&D rules, surely you already know the answer to your own question?" is on the verge of flaming him.

So please, if you have nothing to contribute, then there's no need to post.

[LuigiCabrini]

Maybe this thread is dead, but if not, here goes.

Charisma doesn't just affect the DC for warlock spells-for some of them, it also affects other aspects of the spell. For instance, for tenacious plague, charisma affects the attack bonus of the swarm. For wall of perilous flame, the charisma modifier is added to the damage twice (once as fire damage, once as magic damage). I think there may be other examples.

[Snipercon]

Does charisma affect being able to cast high level evocations at all?

I saw evocations have an innate spell level. Do you have to have a charisma of 10+evocation level to even be able to cast that evocation. I dont think the manual states one way or the other.

[Magrus]

Charisma only affects the Warlocks Save DC's for his invocations. The rest it affects are the things it affects with all characters, just the social skills. I dunno where people got the rest of the stuff on here. There isn't a particular ruling in either the manual or the official DnD book where Warlocks were introduced as to whether you need a particular Cha score for each "level" of invocations. It only said the Cha affected the save DC's, so I am assuming not.

Still, Cha is very important for a warlock if the character plans on using any of the invocations that deal damage beyond the standard Eldritch Blast. Most of the invocations and blast essences require a save to avoid or reduce their affects. If you have a warlock with a 12 Cha, that means it will be very easy for the enemies you target to avoid damage, effectively making your character near to worthless.

Unless of course, you are making a melee build with Hideous blow and mobility/buff type invocations to help you on the battlefield. In which case, go half-orc and pump Str and Con, and get yourself the Medium armor, Battle Caster and Martial Weapon profiencies.

[JackOfClubs]

Good point. But this still doesn't argue for spending points on CHA since you can use items/potions/spells to enhance it. Unlike other spell casters that need a high base ability to even learn spells of a certain level, the Warlock only seems to need the ability at casting time.

And the Eldritch Blast itself doesn't allow a save, so you are guaranteed to do some damage as long as you hit with the ranged touch attack. So arguably DEX is equally important, if not more so.

[Magrus]

Originally Posted by JackOfClubs

Good point. But this still doesn't argue for spending points on CHA since you can use items/potions/spells to enhance it. Unlike other spell casters that need a high base ability to even learn spells of a certain level, the Warlock only seems to need the ability at casting time.

And the Eldritch Blast itself doesn't allow a save, so you are guaranteed to do some damage as long as you hit with the ranged touch attack. So arguably DEX is equally important, if not more so.

Indeed, however, if you use essences that affect your blast, like the Hellrime blast, the secondary effects DO require a save. Anything that is affecting an enemy besides your unmodified Eldritch Blast coming from a Warlock is almost always going to require a saving throw, modified by your Charisma. The fact that spells/potions do not stack with Items, means unless you happen to have a really expensive (+6 or higher) Cloak of Charisma, chances are you are going to add only a +2 to your save DC from items/spells at any given time. Leaving your Charisma low is a bad move if you plan on using the Warlock for anything besides constantly blasting your enemies with a straight Eldritch Blast.

Dex IS important, but that isn't really relevant to the thread focus, being "Charisma+Warlock".

[LuigiCabrini]

Another example of a spell that's affected by the charisma bonus, but not through DC, is Dark One's Own Luck. That lets you add your charisma bonus to your saving throws, and you can have it on all the time, as it lasts for 24 hours. If you're pumping charisma, then that's a huge bonus to your saving throws, and all from a first level invocation.

Also, since the warlock has to connect with a ranged touch attack to deliver his eldritch blast, taunt is a reasonable skill choice. Taunt's ability modifier is charisma. So, if you put some points into taunt, and you pump charisma, then you've got a great way to lower your enemy's AC, and make sure that your ranged touch attacks hit. Even though charisma doesn't affect spells per day, pumping charisma looks like a pretty reasonable call for a warlock.