Neverwinter Nights: pretty much a dissapointment

[smass]

Average Joe - you are right on - and Fable I understand the problems concerns that all of the folks have expressed. No - this game in not Baldurs Gate. Been there-done that. The multiplayer experience is the key to this game. The henchman issue is frustrating - but when you are adventuring with human allies it will be no worry. That being said here are some observations from a big RPG/Baldurs fan with 20+ hours in on NWN:

- The combat is very satisfying - the ability to parry and use different power and sneak attacks has been implemented very well - as opposed to the Baldurs Gate "walk up and bash the s out them" approach.

- the implementation of 3rd edition rules is just brilliant. You can roleplay your character to perfection with all of the options. Basically every class has great potential and there are no stinkers.

- Quests and the main storyline are interesting and varied. Definately enough to keep me interested.

- Graphics are terrific. I have a Athlon XP1700 with a two year old 64MB Geforce 2 card - Game runs very smooth at 1024x768. NO CRASHES IN over 20 hours of play. Not saying there are not issues with this game - My experience has been flawless however.

- I to look at the single player game as a "training run" to get used to the game. The possibilities for user mods like Argyle and others have the potential to make this the most varied and expansive roleplaying experience for the computer. I know I sound like a Bioware PR man - but after playing with the toolset for a while I am excited by the possiblities.

The topic of thread is "NWN a dissapointment" You are entitled to your opinions. If looked at as a sequel to Baldurs Gate and as a single player only experience - I may agree with you. As a stand alone achievement - I would argue that non of us have yet scratched the surface of the this games depth and replayability.

[Xandax]

Originally posted by Ares2382



The only people who soloed in BG were powergamers, and while I'm sure there are alot of them, I don't think they are the majority. <snip>

This is a generalisation that I feel is to harsh. You have no way of knowing anything like this.
And I'm most certanly sure that people could get offended by that statment.

Be thoughtfull when posting, pls.

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GameBanshee - Make your gaming scream
Neverwinter Nights @ GameBanshee
Forum rules

[archerknight]

I have to agree w Fable. Blasting someone because they have a different opinion really brings down the forum. You can say you disagree without coming across as hostile.

Concerning the lack of control of henchmen: Maybe it would help to think of them like you would another player in a multiplayer game. You would not have any control over their actions. Perhaps that is what the creators intended. I haven't got the game yet so i'm not sure how bad they are.

[KaaZe]

I agree, I love this game. Sure the henchmen are not as much fun as NPC in baldurs.. still totally love the single player... I cant put it away

[ThorinOakensfield]

So how's MP? Is it slow? Thats the main factor for me if I'm going to buy this game. When I come back from vacation I'll see where everybody stands with this game and then think about buying it.

I had been planning for so long. I hope its worth it, or I should have gone and got Dungeon Siege or Medal of Honor.

[Trix]

Biowares record with CRPGs ... BG, BG2, PS:T, IWD

FYI, while PS:T and IWD used (modified versions of) the Infinity Engine, BioWare did not write those games. They were made by Black Isle Studios, the RPG division of Interplay.

[DaringCommander11]

This is just my 2 cents but traps are too powerful. I played for about 8 hours at a friends (my computer can't take it ) and I used a cleric and it became very apperent that I would need to abandone heavy armor take a level or two of rogue or traps would chew me up. The rogue henchmen is incompetent (do they level up?). When I played multiplayer with a friend as a rogue the game was great. The game should adapt to the class being played in single player (don't flame me for that.)

[fable]

Henchmen level when you do. Just speak to 'em about experience if they don't immediately gain levels. Of course, you can't control their skills and feats, though.

[Elementus]

I can see how you made your opinion, but I have a few things to mention.
The game may have lots of loading, but this game started production some time ago, but it runs smoothly for the most part. The henchman, yes, I see why people are a little upset, or dissapointed, but think of this. NWN was not made to be like the others, the henchman have a mind of their own, you are not their mind. You payed them to accompany you, they can do for the most part what they wish, you are not some all powerful person. The henchman can for the most part think for them selves, you can give them simple commands and such, but usually that is all that is needed. You can still plan out strategys, you just have to alter them. You cant expect to use the same old strategy on every RPG that is from the same people who bring us BG. They had an idea different from most things, to let you control story lines, and they did. You can make your module, if you are unhappy by the lack of control over henchman, then that is your opinion, but the way I see it, in a game you are supposed to be by yourself, any help is nice. Besides, you cant always expect to use the same old thing over and over, pretty soon the games would get pretictable, and the feeling of new and improved stuff would lose some if its entertainment, imagine games always in production, but every single one looked just like BG or IWD, with a just a few new thing here and their. So they did a makeover. Just think of it has a complete new thing, and that many stuff did carry over, they added some, and took some out, but overall, its a great game, has many options, and can provide endless gameplay, as long as you look at it the right way, and appretiate what is given.

[fable]

The henchman can for the most part think for them selves, you can give them simple commands and such, but usually that is all that is needed.

Regrettably, that isn't, and the problem's that they *can't* think for themselves. The spellcasting henchmen will throw everything at a foe even if you know in advance that the target is immune to most of the spells. The monk henchman's attack types can't be specified. If a henchman is supposed to lead their own life, well and good, but they better have an AI worthy of giving an appearance of reality to that life--and sadly, NWN doesn't (at this point) supply it.

[Xandax]

Seems there is something here for us interested in scripting for modules.
Improve henchmen AI - this was one of the places I feared that the AI wouldn't be good enough

I take it, it wont take long before people start scripting and providing imporved AI to various things

[fable]

@Xandax, do you think it's possible, given the available tools, to actually improve henchman AI sufficiently? Has anybody taken a look at the code?

I'm thinking the complexity of it would be daunting. Consider: if you want a sorc henchman to, say, cast just the right spell under a given situation, you would need to make a check for every different monster type in the game. You would have to analyze the distance from the caster to subject, the presence of other enemies and their potential actions, the presence of exits, your own state of health and active spells, etc. You then need to create the kind of "one-two" and "one-two-three" punch strategies employed by clever human players, as well as mixes of spells, weapons, and tactical movement under different conditions. All this leaves out that great aspect of tighter party control which simulates non-combat conversations, where you develop inter-party strategies for facing different monsters and situations. In effect, a henchman always acts like it's playing alone when it's attacking.

In lieu of all the time spent developing such a script, I think Bioware should have used the best intelligence they had available for controlling henchmen: the player's. Just my POV.

[Xandax]

Originally posted by fable
@Xandax, do you think it's possible, given the available tools, to actually improve henchman AI sufficiently? Has anybody taken a look at the code?

I'm thinking the complexity of it would be daunting. <snip>

Well - having only briefly looked at the scripting code for monsters - I would imagine it to be somewhat similar for henchmen.
And the code looks to be able to do stuff like this - of course a script that takes into account so many possiblities will be heavy to run - but maybe just cheking to see if the enemy is hurt and then stop casting spells or similar stuff.

If the AI is as poor as people say - and you can script for hencmen as well as montsers - I'd estimate that imporvement can be done.

Of course all this is estimated without me having the game, and gone indebts with the scripting as a consequence thereof - so of course - I might be way of base.

[dragon wench]

I have not yet obtained NWN, and I'm not entirely certain that I will. I sense that in order to really get the most out of the game one will have to devote a lot of time to it...

My question on the subject, though, is this. Is it possible to play in multiplayer format alone, as you can with SoA? If that is the case, can you create more than one Player Character, thus eliminating the need for henchmen?

Please excuse what may be a stupid question, as I said I have not purchased the game....

[Pebz]

dragon wench: Only stupid question is the unasked one

Im not sure about creating a multi-player game and playing alone, but im quite sure you cant control more than one character at any given time.