Monk overpowered, or game too easy? (Spoilers)

[Nygma]

Originally posted by Kameleon
Where's the "Oh WOW, and this floating skull is going to do what, exactly? OMG he just imprisoned my entire party! RUN!!" factor?

lol. My feelings exactly. Where are the memorable fights, the ones that spawn 37 different threads on how to win?

Ask anyone about tough BGII fights, they'll rattle off: Firkraag, Twisted Rune, guarded compound gang, that-party-under-the-temple-district-sewer-that-cast-fear,-the-bastards, Kangaxx, beholders, mindflayers, and on.

NWN? Belial, Morag, ummm..., Swords of Never...., ummm..., hmmm, this is a tough one...

For me, only the Swords of Never were even close to being worthy of standing in the august company above.

I like the game, but the mod community needs to get busy!

[Kameleon]

Originally posted by Nygma
I like the game, but the mod community needs to get busy!

Are there ways to change the types of monsters, and make new ones? I thought they were kinda set in stone...haven't delved too deep into the toolset yet though. Thinking about it, you could probably change the monsters as long as you don't change their graphics - what they do, how strong they are etc., but could you actually make a real Beholder with all the graphics if you wanted to?

[slowcar]

how about some PvP-modules?

invite some people to play the BBEGs and you are set, no need to invent big monsters :-)

[Nippy]

Woa, woa, woa. Ok, hang on for two seconds everyone. Remember what Baldurs Gate was? An entirely SINGLE player game. Black Isle had time to devote to the big battles. Neverwinter Nights is all about the multi-play. Admittedly, my Paladin has no problems dealing with Brother Toras, but thats because I got rid off all of his undead allies with Turn Undead. I'm just getting to the end of Chapter 3 (resolving final quests) and some battles are giving me problems, others not.

Let's remember that someone is going to create something that will challenge you. Don't moan at Bioware for an easy game, compliment them for the toolset and the future that it allows.

[DaleWind]

The game itself is not supposed to be easy, just the SP campaign. Bioware have to make money, so they make the SP campaign lean a little bit more toward those munchkins. It's not just the monk, all the classes are very easy to complete in SP, except the bard, which is relatively moderate (until you start abusing the UMD skill)

Monk: Monk gets ridiculous AC, plus they can use a shield... which means a monk can easily get up to 50 AC, making them effectively unhittable. They get immunity to almost everything (get some items if you don't have it), and gets 7, SEVEN attacks per round with Robe of the Dark Moon and furry of blows. All of them made at probably +20 something...

Wiz/Sorc : Time stop + Maximized damage spell of some kind = dead enemies

Cleric : Searing Light has no save, Blade barrier does 120 damage maxed, and Word of faith basically stuns anything... Woo.. a dragon.. aww.. a paralyzed dragon

fighter-types: Get the best weapon you can find and the best equippments, run through enemies while gulping healing potions...

Thank god the items are not as powerful, or this game would have no combat part, the only way you can get a good fight seems to be using parry.. for some reason

The only battle that lasted for a REAL long time was the battle devourer... (stupid damage reduc), I just told my char to attack and left, and He was still alive 6 minutes later, although I took like no damage

[NightFallMyriad]

AC: 42
HP: 197

STR: 19
DEX: 21
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 20
CHR: 10


How did you get these stats? What did they look like at the beginning of the game?

I'm trying to learn all I can about monks since they sound so cool (and since I'm the uber powergamer ).

I'm considering starting the game with these stats:

STR: 14 / +2
DEX: 16 / +3
CON: 12 / +1
INT: 8 / -1
WIS: 16 / +1
CHR: 8 / -1

That should take my wisdom to 21 by level 20 and I can get items like the belt of agility +4, periapts of wisdom +5, Belt of Fire Giant Strength, Nymph Cloaks, Rings of Scholars +5 etc...

Also, I'm still puzzled by your AC of 42 because it seems to be made up of different types of AC, deflection, natural, dodge...

NightFall Myriad,

[NightFallMyriad]

Oddly enough, if I play as an elf, I can start with these stats and I get all the cool elf feats:

STR: 14 / +2
DEX: 16 / +3
CON: 12 / +1
INT: 10 / +0
WIS: 16 / +1
CHR: 8 / -1

Same as if I were human, but now I can converse without referring to myself as "me" instead of "I."

I lose out on one feat at first level, but that's okay since I wasn't sure where I would spend it anyway.

My selected feats list looks like this so far:

Toughness
Dodge
Mobility
Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike)

Power Attack
Improved Power Attack

Another question about monks: concentration is listed as a class skill, but what reasons are there for taking it? I mean, it's only supposed to prevent spellcasting disruption, so what counts as a "spell" for a monk? What could a monk possibly be doing that could be disrupted, because as far as I know, they can't cast spell be they divine or arcane, and none of the combat feats can be disrupted. Is there any good reason to take concentration?

Other than that, I'm putting skill points into persuade, lore, discipline and disable traps, the last two being cross-class.

Comments?

[Nygma]

Base stats at game end were:

STR: 14
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 20
CHR: 10

Every point I got after startup went into wisdom. The Ring of the Rogue (+4 DEX), Belt of Fire Giant Strength (+5 STR), and Boot of the Sun Soul +3 (+3 DEX) made up the final tally.

As for my AC,

+4 AC bonus as lvl 20 monk
+5 Wisdom modifier
+5 Dexterity modifier
+5 Boots of the Sun Soul +5 (Dodge)
+5 Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (Natural)
+5 Robes of the Shining Hand +5 (Armor Modifier)
+3 Cloak of Fortification +3 (Deflection)
+1 Dodge feat (not sure if this is included in character sheet figure)

It has to be composed of various modifiers, since I believe only dodge bonuses stack (i.e. +5 deflection item and +3 deflection item will only add +5 to your AC.)

Power attack was my last feat, I wish I had taken Improved Critical instead. I've never really tried it, but the -5 (-10 for improved) penalty to attack seemed pretty harsh, which is why I took it after I had already gotten everything else I wanted (Bonuses to saving throws and evasion-type feats).

Unless you're using a dexterity based weapon or planning to take the weapon finesse feat, I'd increase wisdom over dexterity. The monk gets to add the wisdom modifier to AC, plus wisdom effects saving throws and the effectiveness of Quivering Palm and other feats (Base DC + Wis. Mod. + 1/2 level seems to be a common theme).

I didn't take concentration and didn't miss it. I do wish I hadn't put points into parry, they would have been better placed in heal. Discipline will let you avoid knockdowns, but I only had a problem with getting knockdown at the beginning of the game.

[NightFallMyriad]

So you you took feats like Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude and Iron Will to up your saving throws? That seems a little excessive considering the monk's saving throws are the best in the game already.

As for power attack and improved power attack, I like them especially for bashing chests and doors. I'm half considering not taking them at all because you can't use them on top of flurry of blows which kind of makes it useless in battles.

That would leave me a couple of feats to spend...

As for the stats, I don't think a constitution of 12 will kill me because it means a nice round figure of 10 hit points per level for a maximum of 200 at level 20, and because I can get CON raising items (Amulet of the Long Death, boots of striding +5 etc...).
Intelligence at 10 seems right.
A fourteen is strength seems about right.
I'm focusing on DEX and WIS because they add to AC bonus as mentioned. And I won't hardly need any charisma. After all, my monk is a bit of a loner.

What race were you? I think I'm going to play as an elf for the high dexterity and neat bonus feats.

[limorkil]

I've played quite a few characters in the single player game now, just to get a feel for them for the mod I am planning. Admittedly, I haven't played all of them through the entire game, just chapter 1 and 2. This is without henchmen by the way.

I have to say the monk is about the easiest of the lot.
The druid is the only class that might be easier, but I think the druid is just more powerful early on because the pet is about 3 levels higher than the character.
Cleric is pretty easy too.

The ranger/rogue is the hardest I've played, but that is partly because the 1.21 patch seems to have stopped some of the better chests spawning class-specific loot. What made this char hard is that I dual wield and only wear light armor, so my AC is not that great. Also, you get a lot less XP if ranger is your highest level class compared to rogue; a pure rogue was tough at the start but she levelled up really quickly and, of course, benefitted from a very high sneak attack (which triggers way more times than what would really be fair in PnP).

I haven't tried a sorcerer, wizard or bard yet. I can see these all being pretty weak at the start, but very powerful towards the end.

So, yes, the SP game is easy and the monk just makes it even easier.

[DaleWind]

Rogue/Ranger should be easy as well due to the Use Magic Device skill

[Crosswind]

It's like this: Once you get the improved knockdown feat, or the knockdown feat, the game becomes -ridiculously easy-.

Monks happen to be the cheesiest class around for a number of reasons:

1.) Bioware not only a.) stupidly included +5 to stat items, but b.) let them stack, something that 3rd edition doesn't allow.

2.) Gave them a lot of nice feats for free.

3.) Included a freaking assload of "monk items" which you will -never- find in normal DnD. You'll find a million magic longswords before you EVER see magic monk armor.

People have gotten 60 AC with a monk, using only items from the game.

So, to conclude, monks are a pretty overpowered class. But any fighter class can own, as soon as you get improved knockdown. Mages and Clerics also have no problems (Harm means dragons die in like 1 round, and mages rule for mass damage).

Taking a henchman just means it's even easier.

The only class that is not entirely overpowered is the bard and the rogue; neither of them have the mass damage dealing capabilities (although use magic item is good)

-Cross

[Mathurin]

Your a little off on the rogue. A higher level rogue does evil things with sneak attack. They also do craploads of damage when sneak attack kicks in, so I guess you are left only with bards as being hindered in the damage department.

[DaleWind]

Monk Items are overpowered. When a rogue uses those Monk-only items, they are still overpowered. They can use wands, they get to cast spells from scrolls, use Monk-only items, + sneak attack and set traps. What else do you want?

This game is supposed to be easy, even on the Hard difficulty setting. See a mage? Run up, stunning fist... dead mage.

[Kibblez]

Cross said:

"The only class that is not entirely overpowered is the bard and the rogue; neither of them have the mass damage dealing capabilities (although use magic item is good) "

Apparently I am the only forum reader who has played a Bard (she's level 19 and still in Chapter 3, BTW). Bards get Ice Storm - which certainly has "mass damage dealing capabilites". Sadly, it is the only big nuke we seem to get, but being able to use the arcane wands as well as the devine wands makes up for that in some respects. (At one point I was carrying around 3 flamestrike wands, and one each of missles, paralysis, fire and power.

Bards do lack a mid-level damage spell - Sound Burst is very useful until you get to level six or so, then it lacks punch.

I can say that the game is easy as a Bard - I am zooming through the giant caves in Moonwood - it's not unusual to take on 4-6 giants and come out without any damage taken. I use the orc henchy and the summoned tiger. Having the options to melee or cast or both adds a certain fun element, keeping the game from boring hack-and-slash or nuke-nuke-nuke-rest-nuke-etc.

--Kibblez