MMORPGs What they should be like?

Dagsby · #1 (**permalink**) 10-30-2005, 02:30 PM

These are the ideas that I would introduce should I ever make a MMORPG (i.e. never as I can't code for monkeys, but in an ideal world...).
Firstly it would be a fantasy world, where you are NOT a hero (unless you actually go out of your way to do so). If I made a MMORPG I would want it to be realistic (something that has been lacking in most/all MMORPG's I have played so far). Also I would want the world not to be passive (also lacking in most MMORPG's atm ('cept maybe eve online...)), this means that your actions (if big enough) would change how the world plays out. I would have combat being something that requires skill, rather than just pressing buttons in an order, and the whole combat would be quick (not standing there for 10 minutes solid hitting each other). Also magic would be limited to a minute proportion of the whole community playing, and would be very powerful if used properly. If at all possible I would want to make a game in which people role-play rather than just power game.
I shall start with combat (as that is what I have been most annoyed with recently). Throughout the entire game you would be limited to 1st person, unless putting on armour or changing your clothes... Combat would be based on range and positioning. This means that a weapon with a long range (i.e. a spear) will only be effective at range, where as a knife shall only be effective close up. SO if a spearman was fighting a knife fighter, the spearman would keep trying to hold the other at range, while the knife fighter would want to close the distance. As combat would not take loads of hits to kill someone, the knife fighter would want to wait just out of the range of the spearman until there was an opening then rush in and cause the spearman to have to find a way to increase the range again. Combat would also not be just clicking away, but maybe how you move the mouse? I am still unsure how combat would work, but maybe with a slight "lock on"... Although this might make archery very powerful, so the shield (if equipped) must be able to be "aimed" as well... to block the head (and your sight (1st person)) or chest for example.
The world that it would be set in would be huge, and there would be NO instant travel. As you are NOT a hero the quests you would get would not require you to get from one side to the other and back again, so there would be no need in it. It would not take hours to cross from one side to the other, but days. Also the world would not be graded into difficulty levels. Of course there would be some places that would be incredibly tough, however it would not be as simple as... level 1-5 stay here, 6-15 can go here, oh now I am 16 that means I must go here... and so on.
The world would not be a passive one, this would mean that NPC's would have to have good AI and would do stuff on there own accord. So, for example, animals would hunt for food (ecosystems??), orcs may decide to raid towns/cities from there own encampments, dragons would want to go out and hoard gold (heh...)... etc. And as it is not a passive world, your actions would change it. For example the reason why the orcs are attacking the town may be because some party of people had just raided there encampment and they are looking for revenge...
Missions would be split into player given and world given. The missions that npc's give out would not be able to be done more than once (however that doesn't mean many people couldn't be trying to complete them first...), so once you have found the guy's wedding ring (bad I know... but I really can't be bothered to think of one at the moment) he shall no longer need it to be found again. This would mean missions would have to be "fed" into the world each week (or sooner if necessary). Although most missions wouldn't make you move far across the map, there may be a few... special... missions where you have to travel far. These would be the life changing missions that only a select few obtain, and fewer complete.
Magic. This would have to be something very special, as for the purpose of my world I would see even 10% of the world being able to do magic as highly unrealistic. Magic would however not be easy and would take up a lot of stamina, making the caster very tired. This would mean the mage couldn't just levitate in, fire balling anyone and everyone, then teleport away still being able to heal himself afterwards... He would have to be very select in what and when he casts and also be ready to rely on sword or bow if needed.
To get magic into the game is the hard part. I wouldn't want it to be like the Jedi in SWG, as I wouldn't want only power gamers to be mages... If possible I would want there to be players (who are working for the producers of the MMORPG (maybe)) who find the best ROLE PLAYERS and give them the chance to become mages... this might not work however, so maybe just the most skillful... hmm.....
Finally... (It’s long enough at the moment) Equipment if you have something you should be able to use it. This means if you find (some how) a full set of plate armour you should not need ST 10 or to be level 20 to equip it. However although you can use it, you may not be able to use it as well as someone who is better stat wise... So if you find a long sword and are an axe fighter, you would not be able to use it as well as someone who is trained in long swords, or as well as if it was an axe. Also if you were a ranger (or a mage) you could wear full plate if you want, however it would limit your maneuverability and your ability to aim arrows/cast spells quickly. Also in full plate you wouldn't be able to sneak, jump, run, or steal as well as in other lighter, with more mobility armours.
That is all for now... I am sorry it is so long and am impressed if you actually bothered to read all or any of it.
Thanks for trying....
Dags.

Rob-hin · #2 (**permalink**) 10-31-2005, 02:31 AM

Well, the one thing that bothers me most is how static the worlds are.

I play world of warcraft, and in that game, a town hase been taken over by the enemy. Multiple quests go there as special dungeon quests. 'd like to see that, after a while, the city is liberated.

Or, there are 2 fractions in war. Why can't you take over an enemies territory. It always fals back in the original owner's hands due to respawn of guards. Too bad.

Xandax · #3 (**permalink**) 10-31-2005, 02:39 AM

Static worlds is something which I also dislike when playing MMOGs, however, you have to recognize that static worlds are pretty much needed for this type of games.

If you allow a few players to do something in the game but then deny the remainding thousands of players, a MMOG would quickly start to loose the following.
It does seem rather strange and annoying that everybody goes out to kill the legendary dragon-boss-type-monster or what not, or save the country from invasion umpteen times in a row - however, if the monster could only be killed once, then again - what about the remaining players in the game. Don't they deserve to get to experience what they play/pay for?

It is the paradox of MMOGs, and one can only hope that some sort of sensible compromise can be worked out in the future.
Also - if a world was more dynamic it would cater mostly to the powergameing sort of players, because they are the first to push the game to the limit, and thus reach high levels able to influence the world. Thus fully eleminating the casual players possibility in the game.
And seeing as games are a form of escapisme from everyday life, a place to have fun, then what fun would players have if they knew they'd never get to see or do the things that a small percentage sees, because this percentage always kills off the dynamic content.

However, dynamics comes in many shapes and forms, but allowing players to directly influence the story of a game is very very difficult.

This also means that the "solvable only once for all players"-type of quests would mean that you either have an really really insane amount of quests, or only have a few players, in which case it isn't a MMOG anymore. What you are talking about - seems more like single player or ordinary multiplayer (group-size multiplayer) type dynamics, then dynamics suitible for MMOGs.

Dagsby · #4 (**permalink**) 10-31-2005, 04:02 AM

Hmm...
I can see what you mean about the high end characters stealing all the content... this I can see now as being a very difficult thing to overcome.
I could have it so there are some quests that can be completed more than once, or some things that are like quests that could be done many times (e.g. bring in supplies). However I wouldn't want it that the ONLY way to get money or the ONLY way to go up in your skills would be through quests... Also I would want little difference between the levels... only a slight increase maybe. This way it would be possible for a really low level char to kill a really high; however it would be very difficult and would require the lower level to be highly skillful or cunning. This would mean that the lower level people would have a chance to do anything that a higher level character would.
In fact thinking on levels, I am not entirely sure if they would be necessary at all... maybe just skills that would increase the more you used them... hmm...
You said that the high level characters would kill off all the dynamic content (I think that was what you said?), however if at all possible I wouldn't want questing to cause things to happen, however I would want dynamic things to be able to happen through the smallest of things. For example what if a player was walking along and he saw an unguarded encampment. Firstly why would the encampment be unguarded? Maybe all the inhabitants have been killed off by another party of players... or maybe they are off hunting... or maybe they are close by watching the player...? None of it would be scripted, so any of the 3 could be possible... Now what if the player decided to enter the encampment and begin to steal stuff...? If the inhabitants were dead... nothing at all?? What if they were hunting, raiding, or watching the player...? They may decide to track him back to the town he came from. Then they may decide to raid, or sneak in and kill the player, or maybe (if the town is far to well defended) wait outside to ambush the player later...
This I am sure would be very hard to script, or do successfully. However it would enable anyone to effect what happens and not just the power gamers.
It would also enable everyone playing to have unique things that happened to them... maybe...
thanks for replying
dags.

Damuna_Nova · #5 (**permalink**) 11-03-2005, 08:07 PM

Dark and Light.

Dagsby · #6 (**permalink**) 11-04-2005, 05:11 AM

Hmm...
Dark and light has some good things going for it... namely the huge world (which from the short videos that I have seen so far seems to look very similar from place to place... this may change however, or may be due to all the video's being taken in and around the same place...?). However I do not believe it is a world that I could ever get caught up in. It is to similar to other (console) rpg's that I cannot stand (the whole final fantasy series for example...) and seems to be set to encompass all ages (which although not a bad thing in itself, can easily become one). Also I do not like the ideas of Gods being able to "randomly" get involved the story. And from what little of the combat system I have seen... it still looks far too clunky for my liking (maybe it also is due to pressing buttons in order...? I have not seen how it is conducted so cannot tell at the moment).
Thanks anyway for bringing this to my attention

Dags.

(At the moment I have only seen screen shots and video's (and read a little of the forums). So am only able to comment on what I can see to look wrong without actually being able to play it)