new kits - Page 3

The Stranger · #31 (**permalink**) 04-03-2002, 07:22 AM

No THAC0? What system are they using now? I don't understand! Lord take me back to the 80's! My kingdom for a Basic Dungeons & Dragons Game!

Onyx · #32 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 02:18 AM

LOL

Don´t worry man, i too found it hard, but after playing 3E rules for a while, it´s all good. No THAC0, and the armor class now goes up, so AC 18 is better than AC 12. So the only thing you have to worry about is to beat someone AC. He has AC 16 and your attack role is 17, you hit, then role for damag, that´s it.

The Stranger · #33 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 06:37 AM

There's got to be a catch! Nothing is that easy!

Onyx · #34 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 08:18 AM

it´s not that easy.
Because it´s easy to get your AC up to 24-25 at low levels.
And i'm sure the will include some pretty tough armors at shields
in the game.
You do know that modifiers apply as (+1) for every +2 over 10
example: So for str=14 you get +2 to attack and damage for melee, or dex=16 you get +3 AC and +3 to attack role for range
weapons.
Also for every (-2) under 10 you get a -1.
So 10 now is a average stat and not a bad one.

Kayless · #35 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 08:58 AM

Simplicity is beauty. Banish THAC0 back to the Abyss where it was forged! Thou shalt torment players and intimidate newbies no longer, vile antiquated game mechanic! http://boards.wizards.com/rpg/biggrin.gif

The Stranger · #36 (**permalink**) 04-04-2002, 11:33 AM

But THAC0 is your Friend! It has been since 1978! How can you just abandon our little buddy?

Just kidding, actually I am intrigued by the changes, I am going out to buy the 3E books today! I may just be able to make the switch yet!

Onyx · #37 (**permalink**) 04-05-2002, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Stranger
But THAC0 is your Friend! It has been since 1978! How can you just abandon our little buddy?

Just kidding, actually I am intrigued by the changes, I am going out to buy the 3E books today! I may just be able to make the switch yet!

That´s what i did. Just go and by the book, you´ll see that the new stuff is really good and easy. Yes, the all new d20 system!!!

The Stranger · #38 (**permalink**) 04-05-2002, 08:00 AM

I guess since WOTC took over TSR, they actually got someone who knows mathematics to take a look at the rules. I was reading the books last night, and everything makes sooooooooooooooooooooooo Much more sense. They reworked the whole deal instead of just adding new stuff onto the old, like they have been doing for years! I can't wait for IWD2! I want to see what it looks like in practice. On, and another thing:
SWEEEEET!!!

Gruntboy · #39 (**permalink**) 04-05-2002, 08:17 AM

I'll add my informed opinion on this matter:

Die, stupid pointless THACO, die!

Although it did rather sound like you were actually hitting someone, in a Batman kind of way.

*THACO!*

Ouch! That hit me in the ear!

DraySkullan · #40 (**permalink**) 04-05-2002, 09:05 AM

I always hear people whine about THAC0. What was so complicated about it? It was easy. Some people made it more complicated than it was, using little charts and stuff every time they rolled to hit. It was a pretty simple concept to me, I always did it in my head without even having to think about it.

The Stranger · #41 (**permalink**) 04-05-2002, 02:27 PM

It's not that THAC0 is hard, it's just that this makes more sense. I still love the 2E rules, I have been playing them for years! I am just happy to see a sensible progression in the hobby I have maintained since I was 11 years old! I am thrilled that it still exists and that there are people who show interest in it! I just wish there were more P&P players in my area so I could get into an old fashioned game. I kind of miss that.

DraySkullan · #42 (**permalink**) 04-05-2002, 03:31 PM

I don't really care if a system makes more sense, or is more realistic if the gameplay suffers. When you take a classic game and start messing with something that wasnt broke in the first place, you lose the fun of the game. One of the most realistic and sensible combats systems I've ever seen was for the Middle Earth RPG. The problem was that each combat round took 20-30 mins because it was so freakin complicated. But it made sooo much sense realistically. I just dont think there was a need to mess with the system. Maybe it wasnt the most real to life system ever, but it worked smoothly and was fun.

The Stranger · #43 (**permalink**) 04-08-2002, 08:38 AM

I haven't played MERP but I have heard about it. I don't know if you can really compare the d20 system to that. As for saying that there was nothing wrong with D&D's original system, I would have to disagree. There was no opportunity for your character to raise statistics, and that is impossible and foolish. With experience and practice your stats should go up, not be stationary. Another way to prove my point, in BG2 they put Armor Classes down to -30 or something by the time you got to Throne of Bhaal. This is a true cheat by the rules of the book, -10 is the lowest AC possible. The fact that they couldn't implement it is proof enough that it was unbalanced and impractical. The original rules do not translate well into a CRPG format. There are glaring holes in the rules that make it impossible.

After all that ranting however, I do agree that the original system for D&D was one of the best and still is! I love it! I support it! Most of all I would die to defend your right to use it! I think perhaps though, you should attempt to be more open to change.

The best example I can think of to compare your thinking to is that there was nothing wrong with the Pentium I processor, why did they go and create the Pentium II?

DraySkullan · #44 (**permalink**) 04-08-2002, 01:22 PM

Well I never said it was a perfect system, I just said it was good enough. I'm all for progress, but just make sure you actually make it better and not screw it up for to sake of making it "more realistic". Same reason I cant stand video games with great graphics that absolutely suck to play. The fun factor is the important thing to me. Now as far as increasing your stats... I personally dont think it's that big a deal. I think you should be able to in some way, but it defititely should be very hard to do, ever. Think about it. You can lift weights all you want, but a person can only become so strong. You really can NEVER increase your base intelligence realistically. You should not be able to bump one stat up every level, and there should be a limit to how many times you can bump each stat up, and/or a limit to what they can be increased to. In the old system, there were ways to increase your stats, but they were rare and they should be. It should take a magical item, or wishes (I think it was 10 wish spells per point above 16 or something like that). And the DM could put stuff in the campaign anytime he felt like it, such as a magic spring or something. Heck, one of the things I loved about the original cavalier class, was that he could increase his Str, Dex, and Con, albeit slowly. As far as AC goes, I may be wrong but I always thought the -10 limit was a popular misconception. The THAC0 chart only went up to -10, but I dont remember reading that that was the best AC you could have. Like I said, I could be wrong though.

The Stranger · #45 (**permalink**) 04-08-2002, 01:42 PM

You may be right with the THAC0 table, but I am almost sure the max AC was -10. In any event it is nice that there is someone who I can have a sensible argument with!

I am always willing to give a new system a shot. I think that we could consider this the new house rules that the DM has instituted. We don't have to like them, but then we don't have to play either!

Here is a new kit for ya!: A Sorcerer/Bard "Spell Singer" I seem to remember an NPC class called a Spellsinger in one of the "Best of Dragon" issues. It might have been in something else though.

How about this kit?: A Ranger/Thief "Bandit"