Kayless’ Guide to Multi-Classing

[Mr.Waesel]

I need more harddisks to burn them all on!

[Xyx]

Combining spellcaster classes sucks... If you build a level 2/3 Sorcerer/Wizard, for example, you'll have loads of Magic Missiles, while a level 5 Wizard will have Fireball.

Polaris once mentioned a rather interesting multi... One level of Sorcerer, the rest Monk. What you get is a Monk that can cast a number of Shield or Mage Armor spells per day, and still shoots 5 missiles per casting when he gets 8 Monk levels under his belt.

[Kayless]

Originally posted by Xyx
Combining spellcaster classes sucks...

My feelings as well. http://boards.wizards.com/rpg/wink.gif

Originally posted by Xyx
One level of Sorcerer, the rest Monk. What you get is a Monk that can cast a number of Shield or Mage Armor spells per day, and still shoots 5 missiles per casting when he gets 8 Monk levels under his belt.

Not a bad combo. Taking only a few levels in a spell casting class and the rest in a combative one is a good mesh, as long as you focus on defensive spells (The Lords of Darkness source book even suggests as much for Shadovar NPCs). Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength, Mage Armor, and Shield are all good low level spells that have long duration. Because they last a while, it lets you take off your armor, cast your buffing spells (with out worrying about your armor screwing up your casting), then put your armor back on to benefit from both. http://boards.wizards.com/rpg/biggrin.gif

[baileyatbrats]

But, what about the role-play?

Granted: In a hack and slash game like IWD you want some firepower, but there's more the to game than that. The fun part is winning the game while overcoming your characters' shortcomings.

The character you find useless and frustrating eventually becomes a good character. In the mean time you can use him as cannon fodder when you get mad. Also the other characters will get to practice their skills like "heal" and spells like "raise dead" with a cleric/sorcerer around. When that character can smite demons, turn undead, ice fire salamanders and fire ice salamanders later, it will be worth it.

You can probably waltz through the game with 4 Half-Orc Paladins, a drow mage and a rogue of any race. But will that be fun? Probably.

Any way. Multi class away. I say - again. (If you die, then follow some better advise.)

[Kayless]

Originally posted by baileyatbrats
But, what about the role-play?

There’s no reason why you can’t do both (role-play and optimize your characters). As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm planning on using a dwarven paladin in my IWDII party. Now dwarves and paladins aren't exactly a frequent combo, but I constructed one that not only met my role-playing image but also was combat practical. I chose a gold dwarf instead of the basic shield dwarf (since shield dwarves get a Cha penalty, which is a no-no for paladins) and since I didn't envision this character as spell-user I decided multi-class him to a fighter after 3 paladin levels. This way he gets detect evil, divine grace, lay on hands, divine health, aura of courage, smite evil, remove disease, and turn undead without having spells (which start at 4th level). This way he's an excellent fighter, but retains all the paladin abilities (except spells of course). Who says you can't have the best of both worlds? http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/winkgrin.gif

[baileyatbrats]

Good choice.
That's why I'm looking forward to the teifling bard, and the ghostwise barbarian. (I guess it's prefered, but a halfling in the front ranks is going to be tough.) The 1/2 Orc ranger will be there to help.

If the game is ever released, we can compare notes and see who has the most fun.

[Kayless]

Originally posted by baileyatbrats
If the game is ever released, we can compare notes and see who has the most fun.

Indeed. Actual experience with IWDII may show certain combinations are more effective than others. We'll just have to wait and see. http://www.highwaygames.com/forum/im...ilies/wink.gif

[DaringCommander11]

About that Sorcerer/Monk idea. Only the sorcerer levels with count for the strength of his spells. A 1 sorcerer/8 Monk still only shoots 1 magic missle.
Also the mage/cleric is now a weak idea. Aerie in BG2 was strong but 2E multi-classing had both classes leveling up as if they were independent characters (as for as xp for next level goes) in 3E you need the same xp for a 1 Cleric/ 8 Mage as a 5 Cleric/ 4 Mage. Pure class or with just one other level of something else added tends to be the most powerful.

[baileyatbrats]

I suppose it's an idiomatic thing, really.
With the advent of the new rules, they've eliminated the need for nursing the extra class.
You can take a level of Cleric and have CLW and Turn undead for life, even as a fighter. That might come in handy. (Isn't magic stone a 1st level spell too? -or is that one gone?)
Also: Your mages can all start out as fighters to get the extra 1st level hit points and other class benefits.

The point is that if you want the 1st (and 2nd) edition Fighter/Cleric/Mage You can still have fun playing it (Only dwarves or Elves could do that right? - It's been so long.)
It might not be the most powerful or useful character, but at least it will get to do something in every battle. Mostly it will be dying that it does, but at least it'll be doing somehting.

A 5th Level mage/4th level Cleric can turn a nice batch of undead, then fireball the remaing ones. Now isn't that worth the effort? Huh? Fireballing the undead you couldn't turn? (And no, Flame Strike doesn't count)

Moot. Moot moot. No game. No game.

[Xyx]

Originally posted by DaringCommander11
About that Sorcerer/Monk idea. Only the sorcerer levels with count for the strength of his spells. A 1 sorcerer/8 Monk still only shoots 1 magic missle.

Are you sure? The Player's Handbook does not mention a need for caster levels or Sorcerer levels, it just mentions... well, "levels".

Where/how did you come by this information?

[baileyatbrats]

That theory would make sense. (I haven't read the 3rd edition PH or DMG enough to know yet.)
Otherwise, level dependant skills would all multiply as one went up in power.

Could a 6th level fighter/1st level Cleric turn undead at 7th level?
Can a 5th level wizard/10th level rogue cast fireballs with 10d6 of damage? (Maximum in POR rules listed in Gamebanshee)
Would the same character be able to "Charm person" for 15 hours?

I don't know. The player in me says. "Yes!" The DM in me says, "No!" The player in me playing with the guy who has to have every darned special quirk of every rule explored ad nauseum until he gets his way and doens't loose a single hit point even though he's got hundereds of them says, "Can't we just play the darned game?"

[Mr.Waesel]

I think it's class levels, too.

[baileyatbrats]

I just read the player's hand book, and there's nothing to indicate that you would get more missles etc as a 1 lvl mage/5 lvl monk. Your levels go up by class. Only the things that are xp based wuld apply to your character. New feat at a certain level (Has to come from the class you just attained though. - I think) and another stat point every 4 levels would apply to a multiclass character.

As far as Favored class the PH says that you ignore the favored class for xp penalty calculations. That means that you can have a very high or a very low favored class and not get a penalty. Your gnome could take 1 level of illutionist and 10 of monk, or he/she could take 1 of monk and 10 of illutionist. (or 1 illusionist and 5 monk/ 5 bard.) All this with no xp penalty.

By the way. The rules say that for Human or 1/2 Elf count the highest class as the favored class. That would indicate that any 2 class human or half elf could progress in levels of each class at will. (1st fighter. 2nd -6th mage 7-10 fighter then back to mage for a few levels.) Opinion?

[Nippy]

Agreed completley Bailey, a human can be any class and get no penalties, unless if you have three classes, then I think you might be penalised.

[Kayless]

Originally posted by Nippy
Agreed completley Bailey, a human can be any class and get no penalties, unless if you have three classes, then I think you might be penalised.

You don't get the experience penalty if your classes aren't more than one level apart (i.e. distributing experience equally between classes like AD&D multi-classing). A human or half-elf Rog3/Ftr4/Bbn7 won't have any exp penalty (since the Rogue and Fighter levels are so close and the the Favorite Multi-Class ability takes the highest class out of the equation when determining exp penalties). Of course a half-orc could get away with this too, since the half-orc's favorite Multi-class is the barbarian. Humans and half-elves are just more versatile.