Hello All and some comments about UPP and JUPP and so forth

[Wrath-Of-Egg]

Certain armors (almost all) have thing called ''max dexterity bonus''.

[l__TK__l]

Yeah armors have max dex bonuses.. and you must have atleast 13 dex to have Dirty Fighting. But I would prefer to have as high dex as possible and select the armor that has the highest dex bonus or no dex bonus at all. But as said in JUPP you must build the character to have the highest armor class that is possible or ignore the whole AC.

TK

[Brynn]

So what's the point in having 18DEX and then use an armor with no DEX bonus?

[silverdragon72]

Originally Posted by Brynn

So what's the point in having 18DEX and then use an armor with no DEX bonus?

don't know exactly how UPP was designed anymore...

...but I would guess...

a) Drakkas is used for someone else

b) he needs the stat points for other stats

c) a barb can't reach any AC that matters - so he ignores AC completly

d) ...most likely - triggered by c): a) & b)



EDIT: btw. forget about the barb (at least if you go for HOF) - the barb design is definetly *not* ultimate !

.

[lompo]

Originally Posted by Brynn

I'm reading Egervari's UPP guide now.
There's one thing I don't understand: the Shield Dwarf fighter/barbarian gets 16 DEX. The explanation says that even 13 would be sufficient enough. I thought DEX has an effect on AC - why is it no good to raise it as high as you can?

Dex. is 16 because you don't have any more points to distribute, unless lowering str/con/wis, which are considered more important in that built.
The minimum of 13 was meant for the dirty fighting feat in the case you didn't want to extreme min/max.

What is unconceivable is that a fig/barb that is a real powerhouse in normal become almost useless in HoF. I haven't tried HoF yet, but it doesn't appeal me much a mode that makes some char. ineffective.
I think HoF lack of any balance: every class should be effective in HoF, some more and some less obviously, while in all the posts everybody says that only sorc. or specific spellcasting multiclass are really effective.

[l__TK__l]

If an armor has no dex bonus it means that you can have as high dex as you want and the armor will aply on top of it. Chain Of Drakkas for example. That way when you boost up your dex all the way you can have a high AC character. Read JUPP. I think it's better than UPP. The characters are more interesting.

TK

[koz-ivan]

ahh upp and jupp, good fun.

i prefer the upp since it's much more flexible, at it's heart it's just a solid party structure that can do many things well. it's a totally unsubtle party, it blasts and it kicks you in the teeth.

the jupp(s) otoh are far more focused on certain builds in concert w/ certain items, ect ect. there is still some room for customization but not much. otoh the parties are much more effective in game than they may at first appear.

Originally Posted by lompo

What is unconceivable is that a fig/barb that is a real powerhouse in normal become almost useless in HoF. I haven't tried HoF yet, but it doesn't appeal me much a mode that makes some char. ineffective.
I think HoF lack of any balance: every class should be effective in HoF, some more and some less obviously, while in all the posts everybody says that only sorc. or specific spellcasting multiclass are really effective.

i disagree, a good ftr will still be one of the more efficient ways of dealing damage in hof. however they will need some healing and buffing to remain intact.

[l__TK__l]

Okay then. I finished IWD2 with JUPP melee party option2. Great fun. It was the first time I have finished this game and not propably the last. I have to say that it was a bit too easy with these characters. I got hit maybe about 2 times in the final battle and only one of my 4 characters lost hitpoints (about 10). But I still had fun. I'm hoping to see more challenge in HoF. I tried a bit HoF with my 18 lvl characters. Goblins went down easily. Looking forward to get to kill some orchs. I still have the JUPP arcane party to finish. I'm in the Fell Wood with them. Anyone else tried a JUPP party?

TK

[Dedigan]

I've done it with a variant of the JUPP melee party, loads of fun once the action got going and could completely ignore enemy mages. I couldn't ignore my own mages because I got too many spell penetrations, but the enemies were ignorable. I also decided that any lawful cleric needs at least one monk level. Not having it wouldn't be wise.

I couldn't really get off the ground with the arcane party because I like bashing things on the head too much and the arcane party didn't offer that option.

[l__TK__l]

You should definitely try the arcane party cause it's so cool to throw 3 fireballs at the enemy at the same time.. everything just dies. There is also the cleric/druid that you can use to bash enemies if you want. Magic is so cool that you shoud try it out and see if you happen to like it. It opens new aspects in the game.

TK

[silverdragon72]

Originally Posted by Dedigan

I've done it with a variant of the JUPP melee party, loads of fun once the action got going and could completely ignore enemy mages. I couldn't ignore my own mages because I got too many spell penetrations, but the enemies were ignorable.

this is why it's recommended not to take SP & GSP !!!

the only one you really harm with this feats are your own drows & DGs!

.

[Aldon]

Originally Posted by silverdragon72

this is why it's recommended not to take SP & GSP !!!

the only one you really harm with this feats are your own drows & DGs!

.

I've always been confused by this. Wouldn't SP and GSP also help get past the spell resistance of mobs? I also wonder why you are nuking your own people?

I guess its not important if I don't understand (my current party is the first to use drow and it only has two), but each time you tell people this I get confused.

[silverdragon72]

Originally Posted by Aldon

I've always been confused by this. Wouldn't SP and GSP also help get past the spell resistance of mobs? I also wonder why you are nuking your own people?

I guess its not important if I don't understand (my current party is the first to use drow and it only has two), but each time you tell people this I get confused.

ok - try to explain:


- 90% of all enemies don't have any SR at all !

- if you don't use summons-only to keep enemies away from your casters you need some melee capable PCs!

- so area-effect spells will almost ever also hit your melee PCs

- best melee PCs are drow (or DG) having SR - 2 or 3 rogue or monk levels for evasion (and good reflex saves!) and wiz-levels for MI, blink blur...

- with such a melee-build you are close to immune to magic damage

- so don't reduce this immunity - this way your casters can completly ignore your melee-PCs when casting area effect spells! had only 5 or 6 casualties last time I played this game - from which 2 were caused by friendly fire!!! (SR penetrated & critical miss)

- for the very few enemies with SR use the reduce SR spells !

- and keep SR of your melee PCs as high as possible!


.

[l__TK__l]

It's just great to have the 2 JUPP melee characters in frontlines. Deep Gnome Rogue(1)/ Monk of the Old Order(1)/ Dreadmaster of Bane(28) and Deep Gnome Fighter(4)/ Paladin of Helm(3)/ Rogue(3)/ Illusionist(20). The first one will have about 48 SR on lvl 30 and the paladin already has 50 because of Holy Avenger. I just blast away with fireballs, sunfire and DBF. But I noticed that I didn't even have to use any spells in normal mode cause my tanks chopped trough everything in seconds. The female Drow Druid(14)/ Stormlord of Talos(16) takes hits from fireballs a bit too often but she has also a lot of area effect spells and can use Big Death axe for throwing so she can stay back with the Drow Bard(11)/ Sorcerer(19). A great party. Try it out

TK