Best 4 Player Party

[DoE]

Hi! It has been so long since I played IWD II and decided to try once again. This time I want to go through the game with a four person party (not designed for power-gaming, but to be decent and fun). Any ideas/suggestions will be well appreciated. Oh, and stat placement will help too, as 16 to work with is not too many, lol, imho.

So far I been thinking of:

Paladin/Sorcerer
Barbarian/Druid
Fighter/Cleric
Monk/Rogue

[Claudius]

If you are not powergaming then you just have to think of what will be fun...
On the other hand if you have a tendancy to want a little bit of power my advice on those is that they are good but the spellcasters will be gimped if you take too many levels of non-casting..Monk also makes little sense with too much dilution you might just take a little rogue to get the minimum skills and a little sneak attack damage.

So Barb1DruidX (the raging bear)
Pal1(or 2)SorcerorX (the saving throw spellsword)
Fighter1ClericX (Warpriest)
Rogue?MonkX (enough Rogue for skills to be working in campaign..Probably take Tiefling and enough intelligence to minimize the need for rogue hint hint)*

*Alternatively you could just take Monk3 for speed and take the rest rogue and use weapons not fists but Barbarian would be speed and rage??

[kmonster]

Most powerful variant of your party if you don't want to cheat (level-squat)

paladin0/sorcerer x
barbarian0/druid x
fighter0/cleric x
For monk/rogue the mix depends on your playing style.

If "best party" means you want your game to be as easy as possible make character 1 a human and the rest deep gnomes. The party balance will suffer a lot but you'll be able to cast high level mage spells long before you're supposed to be. Giving char 1 and 2 1 fighter and barbarian level will even speed this up because of the 20 percent XP penalty for multiclassing.

[DoE]

Thanks both for your responses.

I wanted a paladin/wizard, but there isn't enough stat points to go around, so I decided on paladin/sorcerer.

The reason for a monk is I remember having a deep gnome monk a couple of years ago and she was almost unhittable (at least at the lower levels), so she was good for swarming, lol. But, when I played Pool of Radiance I really enjoyed the barbarian rogue combination, so I am not really sure if I want to go with the monk or the barb/rogue combo.

As I am playing only 4 party members and know of experience penalities I will be using a couple ecl races to bring the average party level down.

I want my party to survive easy, but not at the expense of min/max'ing unneeded abilities (like set Int for monk to 3 to boost con to wis).

So, how about:

Aasimar Paladin 3/ Sorcerer X
Dwarf Fighter 3 (?) / Cleric X
Deep Gnome Rogue 3 / Monk X
Human Barbarian (?) / Druid X

How would you distribute the stats for this group?

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by DoE

Dwarf Fighter 3 (?) / Cleric X

I recommend a Shield Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus (single-class). It's a melee-oriented Cleric that starts with 2 points in Martial Weapon, Axes right off the bat and sacrifices a little bit of fighting prowess to gain very powerful spellcasting ability.

I've only played IWDII once. I was so confused by the choices, I copped out and tailored my party according to a guide by Ken J. Egervari called The Icewind Dale 2 Ultimate Powergaming Party FAQ. It is full of indispensible advice about how to get the most out of your party without cheating. I have no idea what kmonster meant when he said that giving two of your characters fighter and barbarian levels will speed up your ability to cast high level spells long before you're supposed to be able to because of the 20 percent XP penalty for multiclassing. But it seems to me that you should choose characters who can cast high level spells as soon as possible simply by virtue of their own attributes (which applies to a single-class Shield Dward Battleguard of Tempus as well as to other characters such as a single-class Human Sorcerer, as the guide explains).

A Drow Rogue (1) / Wizard (x) also strikes me as a "perfect" character on its own merits (and the male Drow soundset is nice), but I don't see how it would fit into your party.

Originally Posted by DoE

I want my party to survive easy, but not at the expense of min/max'ing unneeded abilities...

Just to clarify, does that mean you wish to avoid min/max-ing? If so, I can appreciate your desire to roleplay; but unfortunately, you won't notice any actual difference in the game if you set your characters' "useless stats" any higher than the absolute minimum. It will only benefit your imagination.

[kmonster]

Unless you're very skilled you'll have a hard time with your party. 4 characters don't level faster than 6 in IWD2, and the 3 non-caster levels weaken your party efficiency a lot.
It's not that easy when you can only cast weak level 1-4 spells when you're supposed to be able to cast powerful level 5-6 spells.
Min/max-ing or not is just a nuisance compared to this.

[Aerich]

I would avoid the rogue/monk and take a rogue[2]/wizard instead. The power of this game is built on spellcasting, so with 4 characters you should maximize your opportunities to spellcast.

I second the vote for a Battleguard of Tempus. Use a dwarf, and take just one level of fighter for the extra weapon feats, and cleric levels for the rest.

[DoE]

Some good tips guys, thanks

I did hear 4 char parties level up too quickly (giving less exp sometimes), so if you have ecl races in your 4 char party it helps at giving you more experience, is that true?

As for min/max and role playing I am building a role playing writing forum so I like to keep everything as "realistic" as possible... though I have to admit that the way character ability points are set in IWD II it does maKE it hard!!!!

[Jedi_Sauraus]

If anything go Pal 2/Sorc XX. I would go for a plain human Sorc XX because of spells. If you have 2 spellcasters you can go Pal 2 /Sorc XX Aasimar He will have the most power eventually but early on he'll be crippled because at any given point he'll be 3 levels behind a vanilla human sorc.

Same thing applies to the cleric that 1 extra feat from the fighter level will not make a difference in any fight. Potentially having access to a higher level of spells will. Take the 4 fighter levels when you have level 9 spells not before. Dwarf makes an excellent choice with regard to no ECL penalty and better saves.

The Monk/rouge Deepgnome is a very poor idea. As with other spellcaster classes the Monk needs levels to shine. Consider taking the 3 rouge levels (and only if the 2D6 applies to your fists) after level 20, which is basically when the monk maxes out. Oh and for heaven's sake don't be a deep gnome they are considered small, you will have slower movement rate and you'll do alot less damage with your fists. Deep Gnomes and the Monk class are simply incompatible.

[Claudius]

deep gnome monk is a great decoy*

*This is important because the AI is so bad you can get every enemy targeting your ultimate AC (or very high) Spell resistant Evasion etc char...

Meanwhile Sorceror is dropping nuclear bombs on them.

[Jedi_Sauraus]

the +4 racial bonus is not the end all be all for an ultimate AC char. It's far better IMO better to take a wild elf, he still has access to shield by taking sorc levels but is not crippled offensively and does not have -3 ECL penalty. I've seen a post recently where it's possible to get 80AC and the author even said that what he wrote was not everything.

[DoE]

I remember playing the Deep Gnome Monk a few years ago and she was unhittable (at least until halfway through the game, I quit playing it for some reason then) because of her AC and I used her for "swarming" the enemy, it is why I thought of her again to use. I also heard the ECL races are a good idea when playing four or less character parties because they keep your average party level low enough so you continue getting experience.

Without min/maxing too badly, what stats should this party start with?

Aasimar Pal 2 / Sorcerer X <---- should he dual wield long swords???
Shield Dwarf Cleric of Tempus
Human Barb (1 or 2?) Druid X
Drow Rogue 1 (?) Wizard X

[kmonster]

Aasimar pal2/sorc 10-14-16-12-8-20
Dwarf Battleguard 14-14-18-8-18-6
Human barb1/druid 10-14-18-8-18-8
Drow rogue1/wizard 10-18-16-20-8-8

I'd make the pal/sorc a human with stats 10-14-18-8-8-18 to get the spells faster. I wouldn't waste feats for dualwielding on a caster. Spell focusses and elemental feats are far more efficient.
The battleguard will totally own the the rest of the party. You might consider reducing his strength (so he can't wear heavy armor) or dex (so he can't use rapid shot) for party balance reasons.
Start char 3 as druid (maximal concentration and 10 spellcraft (for scion of storms) are the important skills) and don't ever take more than 1 barbarian level. If you want a third skillpoint for roleplaying reasons take 10 int and 16 con.
Start char 4 as rogue for the skillpoints. Taking only 1 rogue level yields the strongest mix, but since he's only a backup caster it's not that important.

Originally Posted by Jedi_Sauraus

Oh and for heaven's sake don't be a deep gnome they are considered small, you will have slower movement rate and you'll do alot less damage with your fists. Deep Gnomes and the Monk class are simply incompatible.

That's incorrect for IWD2. Size doesn't matter for movement speed or fist damage in this game.

[Aerich]

Monks and deep gnomes aren't incompatible. In fact, they are one of the best race/class combinations out there, and arguably the best race for a min-maxed monk.

I don't think I'd use one in a 4-person party, though. This game rewards those who cast spells and dish out damage fast, and a DG monk optimized for decoy work can do neither.

One of my favourite parties featured a DG monk with 2 sorcs, a Morninglord, a Rogue/Wizard, and a Barb/Druid. The spell devastation was incredible.

Oh, there's a topic?

I've come full circle and I'm not really a fan of pal/sorcs anymore, unless the pally levels are taken later. A pureclass human sorc has no flaws as a spellbomber and levels up quickly. In a party of only 4, a late-blooming spellcaster will hurt your efficiency. The goblin warrens are MUCH easier if you can obtain Fireball before the end of them. The last thing you want your best spellcaster doing is dual-wielding. If not casting or shooting, it should be running.

I'd make the sorc a human, skip the pally levels (just make it LG if you want to retain the option for way later in the game), and put a little more into Int.

[DoE]

Thanks again all.

The reason I thought giving a level of "something" to each character was a good idea is because of the extra exp my party of four would receive as compared to a 6 party (it is why I also chose ecl levels). After more thought I was leaning towards this party:

Ranger ? /Cleric of Tempus (dual wielding axes and maces/flails)
Fighter
Monk (to attrack a swarm)
Rogue 1 /Wizard
Barb 1 /Druid