Advice On Party Please

[Jatsu]

Ok I've got quite a few things up in the air right now, but this is what I'm thinking.

The characters I am mostly sure I want are the following:
Paladin of Helm (main frontrunner/tank for diplomacy skill and saving throws, can be human or Aasimar)
Human Monk (tank, mage killer, and scout, lower intelligence and charisma down to 5 or so each and pump up str, dex, con and wis to 16 or so each)
Elf Light Archer Fighter (because of the already high dex I would use this character as my rogue and start out the first 2 levels as a rogue, and then the rest would be fighter. The sub-race of Elf is up in the air)
Morninglord of Lathander (Secondary Tank, Healer, and Bombardier, this character I am thinking of also making Aasimar or human)
Elf Wizard (Main Bombardier, Loremaster, and Alchemist. This character can be either Drow or Moon Elf)

Sixth Character
This is mainly where I am having trouble. I was thinking a Sorcerer, Druid or maybe another tank.

Assistance and advice on any and all of this is greatly appreciated.

Thankyou

[fable]

Only two levels of rogue on anyone in your party? Since the traps and locks continue through level 13, you're not really planning to do much chest opening or survival, are you?

On the sixth character, I'd suggest a druid, to take care of summons. Leaves your wizard to deal with other matters.

[Jatsu]

What about the races? I left several race selections between 2 races or so, and I'd really appreciate some advice on them as well

As far as the rogue goes, I've read in several places that its not important at all to have even 1 level of rogue in any of your characters. You simply make a character with a high dex and train him in rogue skills like open lock and disarm trap and all that goodness. I suppose I could make a separate rogue, or do the archer half rogue, half fighter, but I would rather not do that if it would inhibit his value as a sniper. Are the guides I have read wrong about this?

[TemjinGold]

For the fighter, I would actually suggest doing it the other way. Get about 4 fighter levels and the rest in rogue. At high levels even, the rogue is not THAT much worse than a fighter in fighting but the rogue has many more useful skills. A fighter only beats a rogue in Weapon Spec (which Fighter4 will get you) and # of feats, which Ftr4/RogX should not leave you lacking if you choose correctly.

Btw, when picking races, do not underestimate the power of starting with a 20 in your character's primary stat. In the case of casters, the difference is enough to offset a spell focus feat as well as giving you more spells (try it out with an arcane caster casting something like sleep and you will see the difference.)

I would almost go as far as saying there's no price too great to pay for a race that can start you with a 20.

On that note, have you considered a Deep Gnome Monk? The ability to start the game naked with 25AC is nothing to sneeze at...

TemjinGold

[fable]

Originally posted by Jatsu
As far as the rogue goes, I've read in several places that its not important at all to have even 1 level of rogue in any of your characters. You simply make a character with a high dex and train him in rogue skills like open lock and disarm trap and all that goodness. I suppose I could make a separate rogue, or do the archer half rogue, half fighter, but I would rather not do that if it would inhibit his value as a sniper. Are the guides I have read wrong about this?

I don't know what guides you're referring to, so I can't comment on whether they've ignored the issue, gotten it wrong, or you've gotten ti wrong. But it would seem that somewhere along the line, you missed the fact that your training in some thief skills closes off early if you're not a thief. Or did you really think the developers would create a class whose every skill was easily duplicated, elsewhere?

Well, okay, rangers. But any other class?

[Jatsu]

I am getting all my information from the Character Development Guide of The Icewind Dale II Area at GameFaqs

Originally posted by TemjinGold
For the fighter, I would actually suggest doing it the other way. Get about 4 fighter levels and the rest in rogue. At high levels even, the rogue is not THAT much worse than a fighter in fighting but the rogue has many more useful skills. A fighter only beats a rogue in Weapon Spec (which Fighter4 will get you) and # of feats, which Ftr4/RogX should not leave you lacking if you choose correctly.

Originally posted by fable
I don't know what guides you're referring to, so I can't comment on whether they've ignored the issue, gotten it wrong, or you've gotten ti wrong. But it would seem that somewhere along the line, you missed the fact that your training in some thief skills closes off early if you're not a thief. Or did you really think the developers would create a class whose every skill was easily duplicated, elsewhere?
Well, okay, rangers. But any other class?

The following was taken from the guide mentioned before:

In order to succeed in IWD2, you don't really need a "full time" rogue. Instead, it can be a wise party design strategy to get coverage for the scout and thief roles by adding a few levels of rogue to one or more other characters. If you are going to do this, it is recommended that you create such characters as rogues, even if rogue won't be their primary class. This gives you the full benefit of the rogue's massive number of starting skill points. Also, keep in mind that two levels of rogue gives you the extremely useful Evasion special ability, and three levels gives you the Uncanny Dodge ability and adds an additional +1d6 of Sneak Attack damage. This makes those good target levels to shoot for when mixing in the rogue class.

As far as the powerful races with experiance penalties go, it is strongly suggested (everywhere I've read including in the manual) to only take a few characters of the more powerful races, because of the effective level penalty... this mostly important for the casters, because at certain battles you will be behind in your spell library, and might not have the neccessary spells to take down a given enemy at these specific junksions.

As far as the Monk goes.. I'm set for my monk. Hes not up for debate, if he changes much, hes to be removed.. I just really don't like the idea of a non-human monk for aesthetic purposes.. I don't usually use the shorter races at all, and this is mostly because I like to be able to imagine myself as any one of my given characters. Anyhow, I do appreciate your advice, but I'm mostly asking for advice on the characters I have up in the air as far as race goes, the fighter/rogue, and the Sixth Character.

Thanks

[fable]

I would suggest respectfully that the guide is wrong. You'll find chests that require an expertise up to about level 13 (I think it was), and traps, as well. No other class can raise its thief skills high enough.

[Skooter327]

Originally posted by Jatsu
Elf Wizard (Main Bombardier, Loremaster, and Alchemist. This character can be either Drow or Moon Elf)

Sixth Character
This is mainly where I am having trouble. I was thinking a Sorcerer, Druid or maybe another tank.

Go with the Moon elf. As a spellcaster, the Drow is too hindered by the ECL penaties in comparison to the Moon elf.

There has been a lot of talk here lately about either Barbarian 2/Druid x or Monk 1/ Druid x. I've always liked Druids, especially in the IwDs. Also, the half-orc barbarian makes a great tank in IwD. All three are good choices, the druids would be more versatile, but the barbarian would work great on the front line.

On the Rogue issue:
I hate to challenge fable's wisdom here, but I don't really see the need to have a thief in IwDII. I understand why a rogue is good to have, and I also understand how to get by without one. I had a Deep Gnome Rogue x/ Mage x in my first run through the game. What a poor character he turned out to be! I ended up just waltzing through most traps with my main tank: a buffed half-orc barbarian. I used knock on any locks he couldn't bash. I don't have any rogue levels in my current HoF party. I think it boils down to one's playing style. In IwDII, one can get away with smashing one's way through the North without much finesse. If that's the way you want to play it, you can make it work.
If you're considering going rogueless, why not just try it? If you change your mind, you can start adding rogue levels to that archer (although it is best to start with the rogue levels if you can). With IwDII's EXP-balancing system, its not that much of an issue to simply dump a character and replace him with a level one character.

[Jatsu]

I'm pretty much set on my Fighter/Rogue. Hes going to be a Wild Elf and be about half and half. Thanks everyone for all your advice on him, even though it was all pretty much contradictory of each other However, because the Fighter/Rogues role in my party is as a Archer/Rogue.. perhaps a Wild Elf Ranger would be a better choice?

So that leaves the race thing.. Paladin is still either Aasimar or Human, same with the cleric. I'm not sure if Moon Elf is best for Wizard.. and I don't think I really care what race he is.. so you guys please help me here.. Moon Elf? Drow? Human?

Ok that just leaves the Sixth Character if I make one. The best advice I've gotten so far is that I should make either a Barbarian Half-Orc, a Sorcerer, or a Druid

As far as the Sorcerer goes, if I choose to make one, I can either make him an Aasimar Sorcerer, or a Human SorcererX/Paladin 1. A Sorcerer already gets his spells a level later then a Wizard. An Aasimar Sorcerer would be 2 levels.. and with that added level of Paladin.. that would make it 3 levels!!

If I use a Druid.. I would make the druid a Wild Elf because of roleplaying relation to the Wild Elf Fighter/Rogue. I like my characters to be able to have something of a backstory and linked histories and such. In this case the Wild Elves would have come from the High Forest in the Western Heartlands, into Silverymoon where they met the Cleric and Paladin... =) If I go with the Wild Elf Druid.. he can be a Barbarian1/DruidX if you guys think that is a wise choice.

[TemjinGold]

A minor correction... It SEEMS that Aasimar Sorcs get spells 1 level later but, if you study the difference carefully, they actually get spells 1000 xp later (to go to level x, they need X+1000 xp), which isn't a whole lot.

Weigh that against +4 to stats (2 being CHA), the 3 resists, and all the other little things, and it's a pretty good deal...

TemjinGold

[Yshania]

@Jatsu, if you are intending to multi class a character, check Kayless' guide at the top of the page. Also here is another party discussion. Watch for favoured class when considering dual/multi classing to avoid xp penalties

[Jatsu]

whoa crap your right.. so much for the wild elf barbarian/druid LOL. Well I don't really need more tankage so I guess I could just do Wild Elf Druid or Aasimar Sorcerer. If I do Aasimar Sorcerer is it still advised to take a level of Paladin, even though my Monk and Paladin frontrunners will have all the saving throws in the world?

Also I may do Wild Elf Rogue/Fighter 50/50 so I don't incur a favored class penalty. Otherwise, I still need to know about the whole Ranger instead thing I mentioned above =P

oh and the Aasimar or Human deal with the sorc, pally and cleric. All three Aasimar? 1? 2? Who? =)

Edit: Also I think its important to mention that my Fighter/Rogue or Ranger, whichever I use, wont need hide or move silently, because my monk is my scout.

[Skooter327]

Originally posted by Jatsu
...perhaps a Wild Elf Ranger would be a better choice?

You seem to like using elves and humans (so do I). Have you heard that the 3rd Ed. Ranger isn't nearly as potent as the AD&D Rangers were? I think using a pure fighter archer here would serve you much better. You have stated you don't need the stealth, and there are some nice feats for ranged weapons (like Rapid Shot, etc.), which you will be able to buy more of with the fighter class.

Originally posted by Jatsu
So that leaves the race thing.. Paladin is still either Aasimar or Human, same with the cleric. I'm not sure if Moon Elf is best for Wizard.. and I don't think I really care what race he is.. so you guys please help me here.. Moon Elf? Drow? Human?

"Go with the Moon elf. As a spellcaster, the Drow is too hindered by the ECL penaties in comparison to the Moon elf." You must be eyeing the Drow's +2 Int. I tell you from experience, the Drow will lag behind throughout the game with its 2-level penalty. Also, that sunlight penalty is a pain in the, uh, eyes ( ). Especially if only one char has it.
You can never go wrong choosing a human, but if you want an elf, choose an elf. They are pretty comparable (no level penalties).

Originally posted by Jatsu
If I use a Druid.. I would make the druid a Wild Elf because of roleplaying relation to the Wild Elf Fighter/Rogue. I like my characters to be able to have something of a backstory and linked histories and such. In this case the Wild Elves would have come from the High Forest in the Western Heartlands, into Silverymoon where they met the Cleric and Paladin... =) If I go with the Wild Elf Druid.. he can be a Barbarian1/DruidX if you guys think that is a wise choice.

I too like to have some sort of rationalization behind my party members. I had a half-orc barbarian and a wild elf druid in my party. I figured the half-orc fled his village for the forest in rejection, the wild elf befriended him out of pitty, and together they joined some adventurers that happened through the wood.
Its not too much of a stretch, I think. You may want to consider a background story along similar lines.

[Yshania]

If you are not dual classing, you can ignore the favoured class and go along with a single class Aasimar sorceror Regarding your party leaders...a monk and a paladin both refuse rewards for quests, so you will need to bear this in mind when you decide who is to speak to the NPC that concludes a quest.

Your 50/50 plan will work fine, the two classes should not be more than a level apart to avoid an xp penalty *unless* one of the classes is favoured by the race, then you can stretch the level difference.

Re Aasimir/human - it is a personal choice. For spell casting classes, Aasimirs will advance slower than humans or half elves - though their "effective" levels are equal or higher than (but they are delayed in respect of attaining the higher level spells) However, there is often little in it when you weigh up the racial bonuses - as TemjinGold pointed out. My own cleric is a drow Battleguard of Tempus, she is one of my key characters

[Jatsu]

Originally posted by Skooter327
You seem to like using elves and humans (so do I). Have you heard that the 3rd Ed. Ranger isn't nearly as potent as the AD&D Rangers were? I think using a pure fighter archer here would serve you much better. You have stated you don't need the stealth, and there are some nice feats for ranged weapons (like Rapid Shot, etc.), which you will be able to buy more of with the fighter class.

I dunno, I was thinking the Ranger would be good because, as was mentioned earlier, they can take the place of Rogues, and since I am not using hide or move silently for this character, I would have enough skill points for disarm trap, find trap, and open lock. As far as the Fighter bit goes.. the original purpose of this character was to be a good sniper, and if a Ranger cannot accomplish this well enough, then forget that idea. The thing is, that is a single class. I want to play an elf, that is a archer with passable rogue abilities. If I make a fighter/rogue, then it has to be 50/50, and I don't get perhaps as much skill with the bow as the ranger might.

I've decided the races of my characters. The Paladin and Cleric will both be Aasimar. The Wizard will be a Human for the extra feats and skill points and such. I havn't yet decided on my Sixth Character, or if I will even use one, but if I do it will either be an Aasimar Sorcerer, Wild Elf Druid, or Half Orc BarbarianX/Fighter4.

Originally posted by Yshania
If you are not dual classing, you can ignore the favoured class and go along with a single class Aasimar sorceror Regarding your party leaders...a monk and a paladin both refuse rewards for quests, so you will need to bear this in mind when you decide who is to speak to the NPC that concludes a quest.

If I mix-in with the Aasimar Sorcerer, paladin is the Aasimar favored class.. so that will work fine. I am aware about the refusing of the quest rewards, but I thought that they refused gold, and got experiance points in exchange.. which I like.. is this true or do you get nothing?