IWD - Tactics 101

[Gruntboy]

Good idea. I use a high HP & AC tank to do the scouting and take the hits - simple spells, missiles and fast melee is the only way to take out the thieves before they disappear in front of you.

[Gruntboy]

*Ba-Bump*

Will update for HoW.

[Icelander]

I have found that the best party to play is:

1 paladin
1 ranger
1 cleric
1 thief
2 mages

By having the mages focus on different spells you have some great range. The thief is there for traps and locks. The cleric for the spells that boost your to hit and damage bonuses. The paladin and ranger are there for some serious whooping. I rarely had to reload and most often just walked through levels like the severed hand and lower Dorn's.

[Sojourner]

The party that worked for me in HoW was:

paladin
fighter
fighter/druid
cleric
bard
mage/thief

[Sojourner]

On Dragon's Eye, level 4:

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
<STRONG>First off, sneak around till you find the captured adventurers, you *will* need their help! You can either stand back and watch the fight or pitch in for the experince. Watch your spells though - you don't want to injure or incapacitate your allies.</STRONG>

I prefer to hoard all the experience to myself, so I have my paladin reveal the false monks right at the start. I then immediately web/gas/booby-trap the entrance area and have my entire party using missile weapons on anything that comes through. When the stream of monsters coming through slows down (and the webs clear), I send my party through to eliminate the High Summoner, while eliminating any interference along the way. Finally, I take out the large group of Yuan-Ti around the dining table, concentrating on the cleric first.

[Gruntboy]

I must admit SJ, after playing more IWD my views have changed. I would still reccomend a newbie enlist the help of the trapped adventurers. However, you get far more XP if you put a paladin up front. Then using the ol' greas&gas + missile weapons, its easy money.

Addendum for HoW
Call to arms has drastically changed some of the set-piece battles in IWD. Instead of sneaking around and taking out enemies one at a time you must change tactics.

Easthaven - you don't need help here, do you?

Vale of Shadows - little has changed here, skeletons usually swamped you in the open areas anyway. Still large enough to allow sneaking.

Forgotten temple - again, no change. Verbeegs are spread out, though you may face a tough fight against 3 or more at once if unlucky.

Dragon's Eye - this is tougher. Swarms of bombardier beetles must be faced off by a tank with the solitary protection from acid scroll you pick up somewhere. There are a few tough lizardmen fights. Use narrow corridors/a bridge and gas/grease + missile weapons. The Trolls & priests battle is tough. But they can be lured into the passageway before the temple and gas/greased - the trolls need fire and the priests can be silenced/held or mown down. Massed Cold Wights can be turned or Smited (smitten? ). Prayer spells and defensive harmony are mandatory. Poison zombies will explode with a level 5/6 cleric turning them. Yuan-ti (when you discover them, the high archers room, the corridor before X and the Xuonemei herself fight) - lure them into corridors/doorways and use gas/grease/web and fireball (smite works on the elites and priests). One potion of fiery burning - use it wisely. I also found burning hands works better than magic missile at this point (but your mage must be well protected).

Severed Hand - With the ambushes and marksmen I found this no more difficult than before. Even the Skeletons are spread out.

Thats it so far. More later...

[ 08-03-2001: Message edited by: Gruntboy ]

[der Moench]

Save me Gruntboy! Man, I'be been playing BG too long, and have forgotten that sometimes fights can actually be hard. Here's the thing: I just got HoW, and I am getting my butt kicked So hurry up with tactics lesson 102: Heart of Winter!

[Gruntboy]

Any specific problems? Is it HoW or IWD?

[Gruntboy]

More Severed Hand: No noticeable problems here. The elf battles usually resulted in massed charges anyway so this is no more difficult than before.

Dorn's Deep: Myconids and Ettins are easy. The battle at the entrance has always been tough but is not significantly different with HoW installed. There are a few instances where massed charging Neo-Orogs can cause you problems - especially the Warlords who deal out loads of damage. However, by this point your bard (if you have one) can sing the war-chant of sith and your healing problems are over... Undead are no match for clerics at this stage. I experienced some difficulty with the lich, who now seems to recognise invisible characters looking for his key and phylacteries - be quick and be protected from fear or magic. The Bronze guardians are tough, but no more so than usual.

Wyrm's Teeth: Trolls, Frost Salamanders, Frost Giants etc. are all tough cookies but HoW adds little to the difficulty. I was able to tempt Kontik's Ice Knights away one by one. No call to arms?

Lower Dorn's: Fire Salamanders and Tarnished Sentries, by this stage, cause few problems. I'd even run out of missile weapons with my party and took them on in hand-to-hand. Its easy with a few fire protection scrolls and weapons. My mage casting Snilloc's with kontik's ring (+15% cold dmg and X2 spells) is catastrophic against the salamanders (who suffer extra cold damage). Having been through this already, the standard problems are half as tough. A stock of clarity potions defeats the Umberhulks. The fire giants die at the bridge. Marketh's thugs can no longer dissapear in front of you and backstab (thank you HoW!). I found the Malavon fight easy this time but the Flozum almost whupped me single handed! The church was quite irritating. The bone guardians swarm all over you so I turned them. But that meant I could never quite destroy them - they kept running. After blundering into the insanely powerful mummies/zombie lords a few times, I stuck to turning and slowly nibbling away at the guardians. It took forever but I eventually blitzed the remaing cadavers and the Idol is easy.

Poquelin: This fight has been made tougher. Haven't done it yet...

Noticed that he summons bronze guardians in the fight now. How inconvenient

[ 08-13-2001: Message edited by: Gruntboy ]

[Gruntboy]

A few reflections before moving to HoW.

Good armour is scarce. Its not till the severed hand and dorn's deep that you find anything. You have to buy your own platemail, stock up with protection items and use spells and potions (snake scales, agility, defensive harmony etc). High Dex, as always, helps.

Low level spells rock! I must've used grease constantly - it turns every battle. Stinking cloud, magic missile, mirror image, acid arrow, web and flame hands are all essential. Flame hands helps ennormously in confined spaces. It is only slightly weaker than magic missile but delivers the impact to an area instead of one enemy.

The best tactic, bearing n mind the two factors above, is to stock up on missile weapons and level 1 spells. There are a few long stretches where you may run out of arrows. But you can use a bard and dual class mages and it doesn't matter that you don't have high level spells till later.

Whilst some of the set piece battles have changed I still think my original tactics work. But HoW puts some nasty surprises in IWD.

HoW next.

[der Moench]

@Gruntboy: Well, the first damn fighting is on that Isle of (sumthin), where all the wights and drowned undead are. I cleared out everything above ground - only having to re-load about 45 times!!! But I really don't know about those underground areas. Very nasty.

[Gruntboy]

I know what you mean, the first time I tried HoW I got slaughtered by the first band of barrow wights

A lot will depend on your party and weapons. First thing I did was buy "Three Doves" as it has a % chance of destroying undead outright.

I found by blundering around I was fighting more than I had too at a time. Careful sneaking helps you to discover the enemy first and plan an attack. I prefer an offensive-defense. Lure the Wights out with a tank or archer (whom will then be targetted) then withdraw to a defensive line. You may have to bolster your party with defensive spells (defensive harmony, protection from evil, prayer) or potions (strength, agility, speed). Mages can cast offensive spells from the rear (acid arrow, magic missile, fireaball).

The important thing is to concentrate your efforts. If you "pair off" against the enemy you will suffer. If you can have one or two tanked characters occupy the bulk of the enemies, you can concentrate 4 or 5 others against a single enemy, take that enemy out then move on to the next. That way, the mass fighting your tanks will dwindle and become less effective.

What is your party compostion (classes, weapons etc.)?

[der Moench]

@Gruntboy: Here's the scoop. I'm too poor to buy any new equipment, so that tactic is out. (Anyway, I think my equipment is pretty good, see below.) I've tried luring out the baddies one at a time, but I SWEAR there is some new AI that brings an entire group out together, even when you only get in range of seeing one. Time after time, I see one enemy, take a few steps back and wait, and then three, four, five come into visual range! So, maybe it's just my group, but I thought it was pretty good (got me through IWD no problem):

Siegrune Valkyrie; lvl 12 Paladin, w/ 2H sword +4 (backbiter - I figure it's worth it).

Magdalena; lvl 10/12 Fighter/Druid, w/ Slayer (spear +5).

Graf Ludwig; lvl 10/12 Fighter/Thief w/ Lonesome Road (axe +3).

Fromme Gregor; lvl 10/10 Fighter/Cleric w/ War Hammer +4 (Defender).

August vom Wald; lvl 12 Ranger w/ Cairn Blade (great sword +4).

Der Moench; lvl 13 Cleric w/ Giving Star (morning star +3).

Sound OK. I think this game is just damn harder than the others, and I may just have to keep my temper down as I hit that triple digit reload mark!

But, any advice...

[Gruntboy]

Your party is fine - it should give you plenty of options.

HoW *does* have improved AI - the monsters have a "call to arms" function that draws nearer monsters into combat. You cannot sneak around and draw them off one at a time. This is why preparation is important - prepare a defense and draw the monsters onto it.

Two notes - you are using a lot of 2-handed weapons. This means you are not using some of the excellent +2, +3 and +4 shields avaialable to lower your AC. You are also lacking a mage - this, whilst being a personal choice, might affect your ability to cause damage later in the game.

But other than that, your party sounds great. All of your characters can wear heavy armour. You have 3 characters capable of casting defensive spells (figher/druid, fighter/cleric and cleric) - use this. Spells like curse will make it difficult for the undead to hit you, prayer will make it easier to hit them, defensive harmony reduces your AC. Do you use "turn undead"? It won't damage the wights but it will turn them to give you better odds.

[der Moench]

Thanks, Gruntboy. I'll keep hacking away. One thing that may help is if I memorize more of the spells you mention. I usually stock my spellcasters with heal spells (no real healing potions in IWD/HoW that I have been able to get), and gift short shrift to the others. 2H weapons - yeah, my AC could use a boost on one or two characters, but I have allotted my skills in the 2H categories now, so...

Anyway, thanks again. I am too frustrated with the game to pick it up right now, but I am sure in a week or two I'll be posting more of these