Gothic II - Don't buy it.

[Siberys]

Not to get off-topic, but unless I read wrong, did you just call the story line of Morrowind lame? Sorry to say, but if you read everything they say when you talk to people, you'll see that it isn't really lame. Wow, never thought anybody would think of Morrowind like that. If you listen, you were a prisoner at the opening credits, and as you progress (SPOILER POSSIBILITY) You get to work for the king I think. It's not supposed to be, "You do this and I'll give you something," but more as to "You go do what you want and when your ready, you can work for the king if you want to."

(Correct me on that if I am wrong, but that's kinda what I got out of it)

I don't see how that is Lame as it makes it open ended, fun, and it lets you be YOUR own character and not just an automatic character that MUST follow the storyline.

Now, back on topic. Gothic 2. ASIDE from the controls, no tutorial, and the inventory, is this game worth buying in terms of storyline and and open endedness? I care not of statistics of the game, but more as to the flow and stability of the storyline, the general direction of the game whether there be paths of good or evil, and how well the character is customizable.

[thenenea]

Well, yes, the story in Morrowind is really weak, considering that you are doing exactly the same thing as in Daggerfall who was released back in 1996. Despite its bugs I managed to finish Daggerfall and considered it great. I still do that. The game promised and delivered a great experience. The storyline was great for a game of that era, it was misterious and stimulated you to leave the dungeons for a while and try to solve the main quest. But in 2002 when Morrowind came out I had tha greatest dissapointment. Well, it was a great rebuilt but it was practically the same game. Kingdom in danger - checked, work directly for the king but get your orders from a spy of his - checked, big distances between cities but nothing to make the roads or cities memorable - checked. Hell, they even took my horse from Daggerfall and cut my legs cause it seems everybody in Morrowind starts with midget legs and cannot move any faster than a snail. There was a certain "test" in Daggerfall to know if your character was in the "big league": you had Daedra equipment and you were able to steal from stores. In Morrowind is that again you have Daedra equipment and you can walk at a decent speed or run more that 100 meters without dropping. Ah, and lets not forget the "brilliant" "rumour talk trees" that presented you with at least half a screen of borring and generally reused "info" to the point where I used to make my notes on a sheet of paper just to extract the few bits I needed. So is Morrowind a great engine for RPGs ? Withouth a doubt, yes. I would love to see someone who dares to use his/her imagination fly a little bit more pick it up and write a shorter but more thrilling adventure for it. But untill then that's all there is to it and is not enough for me. There is only that much "get the Daedric Katana, get the soul gem, get the better katana, get the better soul gem" that I can swallow. Now Bloodmore was a nice attempt in the right direction. Too bad they've rushed it and after the beginning of the quest turned to the "proven paths".
Getting to Gothic 2 I guess it was the "little people" of the game that made it really interesting. The lines and voice acting were much more "alive" than in other games, expecially Morrowind. When you first meet Xardas you get very fast the ideea that he's a dangerous fellow and you'd better not ask too much about his past. His got a non - nonsese mode of setting you into the story and gives you a clear purpose: get that thing by all means. Wow, by all means ? But why would that interest me ? Well, for start it might save your skin and also the whole kingdom and it's a thing of great power that chooses who can wear it. Hmm, now that sounds interesting. He also points toward your goal and indicates you a road. Care to adventure in the woods near the road ? Great, but be warned, this is not a world that cares that you are a rooky. It will chew you up in a second. They also throw in the first signs if an opposition to your quest before you reach your first town. So, by the time you get there you have a strong foothold in the story and a serious push to discover why and who planned this. The only thing that lacks is a decent character to uncover the secret. Well, this is the place to start then. 80% of the people in town have a personal point of view of the events in clear lines. They drop the occasional rumour and have a little story and some quests for you. Want a clear laid path that is relatively safe ? Join the militia and become a paladin. Care for a little more risks but a more variated experience ? Try to reach the mercenaries and join them. You've read well - you have to take risks even to get there. Feel like playing it all on one very risky card ? Join the magicians. Nothing comes easily and few things comes for free in Gothic 2 except trouble. If you play your cards well, help the people more than bully them, steal a little, rob and kill a little and then pray to the gods you might even get some decent starting equipment and a few friends. Want to get something from an NPC, lets say training ? Then you will have to prove yourself, either as a negociator or con artist, thief or valiant fighter. And there is no nanny around. All you have to do is carry a package to the wich ? Well, sound easy enough but nobody tells you that 5 meters further there are enemies who are a serious challange for a character with twice your experience and much better weapons. Keep your eyes open and choose your battles carefully. And each chapter has it's special setting, bringing the feeling that the designers wanted you to have. It's an open world but the mood is set and you cannot deny that the timing in wich events unfold is great. You start in an uneasy "something is brewing" state. As you progress you turn to "under siedge - man the gates and scout for a way out" and later move to full blown war and ultimatelly "last man standing - the fate of the world is in your hands". Even secret areas like a small hidden cave contain traces of life and links to new or previously unsolvable quest. It's not a "do all quest, get all loot" experience but more like life you alternate the moments when you run and hide with the one where you hold the line, sword in your hand. And people from your past are there to help you or distract you on the way - a nice touch that gives the character additional weight and personality. So do I thinks Gothic 2 is better in terms of story than Morrowind ? Yes. It looses to Morrowind in terms of graphics and size of the world but it ties much better the charactes and story in a much challenging one adding personality and humour to the NPCs and situations. I am looking forward to both Oblivion and Gothic 3 and hope both will improve in the areas where their predecessors were lacking. Until then I recomand Gothic 2 to any hardcore fan of RPGs.

[WolfHeart]

Spoilers below





Morrowind is like Daggerfall without all the interesting features, i want back the penalties that you could put on a character and the bonuses, and for me a few birth signs didnt cut it in comparison to the huge list that daggerfall had. I (read I, not putting words in anyones mouth here) didnt think much of Morrowind, the grafics where nice, some of its story elements where cool especialy the large ammount of background notes, books and parchments you could find but all in all Morrowind just didnt cut it for me like it did for others.

Magic in Morrowind is patheticaly useless, i have no fun playing a pure mage class, and a few schools dominate the magic tree due to their usefull buffs and their ability to teleport you or allow you to open locks and reach innacesable areas. In gothic on the other hand magic is made for battle and it does it job at that very well most spells decimate hordes of enemies, but you still retain some minor utility spells like, teleportation(all characters get it to keep things fair)sleep, summoning spells healing ETC.

Gothic on the other hard had too simple of a character development which is about my only bug with the game. No i dont mind the inventory, or the controls those are easy to get used to if you enjoy the game and keep playing it. I would have loved to be able to use a shield, or dual wield, i think that would have made 1 handed weapons much better, and given due competition to 2 handers.

I think the controls actualy make the weapons in the game take some skill to use properly, even at master level you cant just go into battle click and completly decimate everything, it makes fighting multiple enemies a hard task and rewards people who pull their kill to a safe area before attacking it melle.

Gothic2 isnt the best game but i enjoyed playing it miles more then i did Morrowind.

[Greywulf]

I wanted to post a bit of a rebuttal to this thread since I am a big fan of Gothic, and I think that the game is one of the best out there.

Gothic 2 is like Morrowind with a more medieval/less alien feel. It is large and free-form, like Morrowind, but not quite as big. Like Morrowind, it is in first-person perspective by default, and is not a Diablo-style game.
You could argue that the plot to Morrowind is pretty clever, but then again, not entirely original. You don't know who you are as you arrive on the island of Morrowind, but it will turn out that you may be the reincarnation of the Nerevarine. In PST, you don't know who you are, but it will turn out that you are a reincarnation of yourself, and something of an immortal. And in BG2, you are the son of a deity. And in Morrowind, you are basically going to save the world from evil, a common theme.
All that being said, Gothic 2 is not really original either - you are a nameless hero who is going to protect the world from the dragon-led orcs forces that threaten it.
Morrowind had a unique leveling scheme and approach to classes and skills and character customization. So does Gothic 2. Does anything make Gothic any more complex or difficult than Morrowind? Not necessarily.
Everyone who wants to find a complaint about Gothic 2 will bring up the controls. Admittedly, they are different than many other games out there, primarily because they are not a mouse-oriented point-and-click affair. This makes them unfamiliar, and thereby difficult, but once you get accustomed to them, they will be as second-nature as any game's controls. They present a steeper learning curve simply because they are not like most other games. But there is nothing inherently faulty in the system. Just be prepared to have to adjust and don't take your first playing time or two too seriously. Think of them as practice sessions if you want.
There is no tutorial, but please do read the Read Me file and the manual.
You can activate hotkeys, and they do work. Read the Read Me file.
You can activate quick save and quick load keys, too - it's all in the Read Me.
No, you cannot pause in combat or even search through your inventory without subjecting yourself to attacks from your foes. Annoying? Perhaps. But it is much more realistic. If you're in a fight, would you ignore your opponent to look through your backback?
I have read some reviews that say the graphics are average. I think they are better than those in Morrowind, but perhaps this is just my opinion.
The game has smart AI and the characters are very well-designed and IMO much better looking than those in Morrowind.

If you liked Morrowind, you ought to check out Gothic 2. Gothic 1 is great, too, but less polished with poorer graphics. G2 does pick up where G1 leaves off, and there are many recurrent characters and topics, but you do not need to have played G1 to get G2. G2 also addressed many of the complaints people had with the games (hotkey, quick save, keyboard control issues).

All I'm saying is give it a try. Don't be deterred by the keyboard control system or complaints about the combat system. And if you need to hear something about the game to send the point home, it is this:
It has dragons. Real big, real scary, and real deadly.

[Acleacius]

The biggest mistake of the publsiher/developer was to make the Defaiult Controls like Gothic 1.
To you guys that have the game all you need to do is set Gothic 1 controls OFF, till you get used to the game and game world, it is a LOT to get used to.

Once you understand the leveling and get orentated, if you want to turn the Gothic1 cotrols back on you can anytime.
You will find one of the most realistic combat modes, you have seperate keys for Block, Right swing and Left swing allowing for reall cool combo moves depending on your skill levels.
You must learn each monster's, human's or animal's fighting style, ie animals can't be blocked, but you if you dont block with agaisnt humans or monters you die FAST.

Shame you guys missed out on a great game while the graphics do not match Morrowind, the quest are much better you feel like your really talking to different NPCs with different personallities.
The new Radiant AI Obliviin has comes from seeing how well Gothic series AI, which they were doing back in 2000 with Gothic 1.
The terrain is great too much better than Morrowind, much more like climbing real mountains.
I liked Morrowind but was let down by the lifelessness but Gothic's biggest asset is it is very alive with personality, especially for an inde title that was so popular it is now releasing a 3 title in the series later this year, my guess Q4.

It honestly is a pretty hardcore RPG, but if you can set the contols to NON GOthic 1 and dont try to go far off the road till your maybe 10th level (just doing quest in the first town) you will come away with one of the best RPG experiences you have had.

PS No problems with setting potions hotkeys or setting Quick save in the ini .

Oh yeah it has one of the coolest features in the console I have even seen, you can Inhabit any person or creature even a Dragon to mess around with an play very cool, but dont wonder off to far from your charater he will disappear and you will lose him forever, without a reload.

[mr_sir]

i really liked the gothic combat system and controls - for once you actually have to think a little about fights its also very noticeable how your ability increases as your skills increase - another aspect of the game i really liked. all in all, i'd say buy the game as its one of the most fun games i've played. it has humour, a good storyline, you can feel your character developing throughout hte game, there is loads to do - so much that i suspect i missed a lot my first run through. if you switch to gothic 2 controls, the combat is a lot easier to get the hang of, it just takes a little timing. and the effort put into the creation of the island it is set is great - i loved the little touches, like the clouds in the sky etc. who cares about having super good graphics? not me. i think how they did it was perfect for this game and the details were more important than state of the art graphics.

[Griffildur]

I only want to say a few things as reply to this post. It's frightening how easy you can actually move the difficult piece of hardware called mouse so that you can actually face the enemy instead of trying the ctrl button ... and lastly when you talk about not being able to pause the game ... have you ever tried pressing esc ... or even "B" ? try that and see what happens ... the magic is yours ... pause ...
I don't get it ... someone who cannot even figure out the escape key can be used to pause the game ... can say don't buy the game to other people. Kinda scary of you ask me.