Which aspect should RPG developers devote the most time to?

[Gilliatt]

Originally Posted by frost01

Its very amusing that so many people say that the story line is the most important part of an rpg, and i agree 100%, but most rpgs have very little emphasis on story line!

That is why so many people here complains that they have not seen a good RPG in years! Many of us are desperately waiting for an RPG with a good story.

I have not played NWN, but from the comments I have red on this site, I don't think everyone will agree with you on this.

[Kipi]

Originally Posted by frost01

Its very amusing that so many people say that the story line is the most important part of an rpg, and i agree 100%, but most rpgs have very little emphasis on story line! and most developers do not put in a conserted effort in to making a storyline, eg oblivion, fable, morrowind, dungeon siege. I think a good game would put most of its emphasis into two elements, that of the game mechanics (combat system and character development) and storyline (story/dialogue and henchmen/npcs). having said that, so far i have seen games who at least master one aspect, eg neverwinter nights had an awesome storyline, diablo 2 had awesome character developement, and revenant had a great combat system.

That's because most "normal" players tend not to like to concentrate too much to the story, but instead they prefer astonishing graphics, "complex" character generation (such that gives you feeling of freedom of choice, which is only illusion, ie. Diablo2...), graphics, mass of items, graphics, and mass murdering of monsters. Oh, and did I mention the graphics?

It's sad that in general only minority of players tend to prefer story over the graphics. This eventually lead and has already lead to the dying of the genre of RPGs with good, well written story...

[DesR85]

Originally Posted by Kipi

That's because most "normal" players tend not to like to concentrate too much to the story, but instead they prefer astonishing graphics, "complex" character generation (such that gives you feeling of freedom of choice, which is only illusion, ie. Diablo2...), graphics, mass of items, graphics, and mass murdering of monsters. Oh, and did I mention the graphics?

Up till this day, I have yet to understand why today's RPGs like follow the trend of item hoarding. So many items to collect and those which are useful are very few and the rest are absolute rubbish.

[Gilliatt]

Originally Posted by DesR85

Up till this day, I have yet to understand why today's RPGs like follow the trend of item hoarding. So many items to collect and those which are useful are very few and the rest are absolute rubbish.

I agree entirely with you. Why should a bunch of adventurers need to collect hundreds of cheap items to be able to buy decent equipment? Are we playing adventurers or homeless characters who need to look in garbage bag to find empty bottles or empty cans?

[mr_sir]

Originally Posted by Gilliatt

Why should a bunch of adventurers need to collect hundreds of cheap items to be able to buy decent equipment?

Why should a bunch of adventurers only ever come across really expensive, powerful items? It makes sense to me that they will find things like gems etc., and it makes sense that they should be able to loot armour and weapons from corpses if they wish to do so. The only problem I have with how more recent rpgs work is the fact that often you can carry unlimited items rather than have to ration which items you collect like you do in some of the slightly older rpgs due to weight bearing limits and inventory size.

[Gilliatt]

Originally Posted by mr_sir

Why should a bunch of adventurers only ever come across really expensive, powerful items? It makes sense to me that they will find things like gems etc., and it makes sense that they should be able to loot armour and weapons from corpses if they wish to do so. The only problem I have with how more recent rpgs work is the fact that often you can carry unlimited items rather than have to ration which items you collect like you do in some of the slightly older rpgs due to weight bearing limits and inventory size.

Mr_sir, I have nothing against people who like to collect loot and I have nothing against starting the game with cheap items. What I don't like is that in many games, you don't have the choice, you must collect loot and spend lots and lots of time going back to the market, if you want to have enough gold to get the minimum equipment you need to survive as you advance in the game. That is one aspect I don't like, I love doing quests, not packing and visiting the market every 10-15 minutes. This is what I meant. I would prefer it if they would give more gold and less items.

[Siberys]

Originally Posted by Gilliatt

Mr_sir, I have nothing against people who like to collect loot and I have nothing against starting the game with cheap items. What I don't like is that in many games, you don't have the choice, you must collect loot and spend lots and lots of time going back to the market, if you want to have enough gold to get the minimum equipment you need to survive as you advance in the game. That is one aspect I don't like, I love doing quests, not packing and visiting the market every 10-15 minutes. This is what I meant. I would prefer it if they would give more gold and less items.

It's basically realism and frustration versus convinience and simplicity. It's why I usually modify games that use encumbrance rather than inventory space. For instance, in DND games (I'm not sure about video games), a person with average strength, being 10, can lift a light load of 33 pounds. Medium is 66 and heavy is 99, but this doesn't make sense. Most of the people I've met can easily lift 50 or 60 pounds without being slowed down, and they are rather "average" people. So I modify weight properties in the games.

I also did to oblivion and morrowind with a modification what neverwinter nights did with magic bags and bags of holding, always useful that.


So while I do agree, there are ways around this without it really being considered cheating. A bag of holding in an oblivion shop could be sold for 500 septims, thus you would have paid for that extra space and reduced weight in your inventory legitimately.

[DesR85]

Originally Posted by Gilliatt

Mr_sir, I have nothing against people who like to collect loot and I have nothing against starting the game with cheap items. What I don't like is that in many games, you don't have the choice, you must collect loot and spend lots and lots of time going back to the market, if you want to have enough gold to get the minimum equipment you need to survive as you advance in the game. That is one aspect I don't like, I love doing quests, not packing and visiting the market every 10-15 minutes. This is what I meant. I would prefer it if they would give more gold and less items.

Agreed. In the beginning, it's logical to get low-level weapons and equipment. The reasons you mentioned are what I really disliked in Gothic 3 and other recent RPGs. Speaking of Gothic 3, you can collect practically almost everything (mostly useless stuff) you find. In the end, you'll collect enough junk to fill a warehouse. I wouldn't mind collecting essential items like potions, weapons, armour or others but I don't like to collect rubbish like mushrooms, tree barks and what not during the whole course of the game.

[mr_sir]

Originally Posted by DesR85

In the end, you'll collect enough junk to fill a warehouse. I wouldn't mind collecting essential items like potions, weapons, armour or others but I don't like to collect rubbish like mushrooms, tree barks and what not during the whole course of the game.

The thing you are forgetting is that in an rpg you do not need to collect every item you find. They are roleplaying games and its up to you how you play them. If you don't want to carry loads of junk then don't pick it up in the first place. In most games you can make more than enough money, more than you will ever need to get decent equipment, just from selling magical stuff you find.

What it essentially comes down to is roleplaying. If you just play the game so you get all the best stuff possible and with the sole aim of becoming powerful and finishing the game then I can see why little things like this could be annoying. If you are roleplaying then often it is the little things like this that add to the feeling of the game and the atmosphere. Why wouldn't an adventurerer find junk? It just comes down to choice, will you pick it up or will you just leave it there. Lots of cheap worthless items does not have to mean going to the shop to sell them all the time. I hsve never played an rpg where gold is so short that you are forced to do this.

[galraen]

Pretty much agree with the majority here, storyline first, character development a very close second.

I strongly agree with Kipi about graphics.

Equally strongly disagree with Cov3rtP3nguin regarding Oblivion having good character development, IMO it was very poor, like just about everything else in tha game, very pretty graphics though!

[Claudius]

I'd just like to comment that although I voted story I don't think a videogame should do a cruddy job in any of these departments. I'd rather buy one videogame at a high price that suceeds in all of these areas (with replay value too ) than buy several stinky games.

For example 0 people voted for sound, but I'm sure ya all got ears and you know what sounds good.

On graphics I think they are inherently easy to sell. You can't spoil the story before the game and it doesn't have a mystique as much as a movie. So people see the graphics trailers and think hmmm I want that game. Rather than like with movies what actor was in that whose the director etc (anticipating a good story)...

[Siberys]

Agreed. Music isn't a necessity, but it really doesn't make the game look or feel good without it.

As for graphics, the only amount of graphics you will ever need in a game in my opinion, is enough to see where you're going. If we had graphics like that of a Nintendo DS but for a huge 6 gig game, I'd be tickled pink that they decided to work on other important factors.

[DesR85]

Originally Posted by Claudius

I'd just like to comment that although I voted story I don't think a videogame should do a cruddy job in any of these departments. I'd rather buy one videogame at a high price that suceeds in all of these areas (with replay value too ) than buy several stinky games.

For example 0 people voted for sound, but I'm sure ya all got ears and you know what sounds good.

Agreed. All these factors are necessary when it comes to developing games. It's just that game developers need to strike a balance between the departments mentioned in the poll. Some are able to pull this off and some cannot.

Originally Posted by Claudius

On graphics I think they are inherently easy to sell. You can't spoil the story before the game and it doesn't have a mystique as much as a movie. So people see the graphics trailers and think hmmm I want that game. Rather than like with movies what actor was in that whose the director etc (anticipating a good story)...

For me, it's different. If I see a cool game trailer without any gameplay mechanics in action, I will be interested, but very much unsure how the whole game plays like. Only when gameplay demonstration videos are released, then I'll decide whether this game is worth looking forward to or not as I've seen first hand how the game works.

[munna]

Without strong story RPG will become boring, but IMO character dev and music have strong role behind a good rpg. and can't ignore graphics too.

[Siberys]

Originally Posted by munna

and can't ignore graphics too.

In my opinion, yeah ya can.