The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Retrospective

[GameBanshee News]

It's a good thing Total Video Games created a retrospective article for Oblivion, as it's been so long that this game has almost fallen out of public consciousness.

Key to Oblivion, particularly in terms of the pre-release hype, RadiantAI promised the most authentic NPC behaviour to feature in an RPG. Unfortunately the hype appeared to have been just that as the final outcome found it's fair share of criticism with largely static routines that failed to deliver. It's a feature that Hines and Bethesda consider as an area to improve upon, "We feel like we're only scratching the surface of what we can do with AI for our NPCs," before adding, "I think we can make a lot of improvements and enhancements to that system. For other areas, we may blow something up altogether and start over if that's what we need to do."

Ultimately whether or not technology will empower developers such as Bethesda to continue pushing the gameplay boundaries with further Elder Scrolls titles remains unclear, "at this point, it's hard to say," says Hines, "the most important thing for us to stick with is that we don't rest on anything we've done in the past."

[fable]

It's a good thing Total Video Games created a retrospective article for Oblivion, as it's been so long that this game has almost fallen out of public consciousness.

Oh, you sly wit, you.

Key to Oblivion, particularly in terms of the pre-release hype, RadiantAI promised the most authentic NPC behaviour to feature in an RPG. Unfortunately the hype appeared to have been just that as the final outcome found it's fair share of criticism with largely static routines that failed to deliver. It's a feature that Hines and Bethesda consider as an area to improve upon, "We feel like we're only scratching the surface of what we can do with AI for our NPCs," before adding, "I think we can make a lot of improvements and enhancements to that system. For other areas, we may blow something up altogether and start over if that's what we need to do."

LOL! I mentioned waaay back after the game just came out that the claims some players were making for the AI were patently ridiculous--such as that NPCs could revise their own code. Several members refused to even listen. They wanted to believe the hype--the essence of PR is, after all, wanting to believe--so it was true. But Radiant AI was never that good, only a few extra possibilities thrown into standard AI they'd used in Morrowind.

But of course, Bethsoft's PR stuck resolutely by nonsense for the longest time, when it would still sell. This is Pete Hines two years ago:

Pete Hines - Our new Radiant AI system allows for full 24/7 schedules for every NPC and they also think on their own. We give them general goals to accomplish and the NPC figures out how to accomplish it. Radiant AI allows us to have that kind of advanced behavior on a massive scale.

No wonder those kiddies thought Oblivion NPCs could rewrite their own code! Bethsoft was giving the impression that Radiant AI was a matter of directing NPCs to do general things, and the NPCs somehow decided *on their own* how to achieve them. But what Hines was really describing was nothing more than an IF/THEN statement with a series of choices after THEN, each weighted according to preconditions. That's not revolutionary.

Looks like history's being rewritten. What was played up to the skies to sell Oblivion is now being dissed to make the company look reasonable. At least modders weren't fooled. Most of the crowd headed back over to Morrowind.

Oh, and I found this choice bit which should please all those players that hate the way you're force-fed info for certain quests and even required to do some in certain very specific, rather foolish ways:

Another aspect we improved is in the way that quests work. We created quests and things for the player to do that they can not only choose to do (or not do) in any order, but they can accomplish in a variety of ways.

We really should make a page filled with all the PR nonsense Bethsoft published that was the opposite of the way Oblivion played. Just for the fun of it.

[Amasius]

Originally Posted by fable

We really should make a page filled with all the PR nonsense Bethsoft published that was the opposite of the way Oblivion played. Just for the fun of it.

Today is your lucky day, someone at the Codex did:

Which Oblivion Dev Lied The Most?

[fable]

No, I mean a retrospective that takes comments on Oblivion in development, to the press, and presents them today, in n article, with the truth firmly printed underneath each. That's what I want. Not a forum thread that's two years old.

[Tricky]

Ah, the burning dog video. That was what made Radiant AI so popular before it was released. A blatant hoax if I ever saw one. What a bunch of phonies worked on that game, sheez.

[Amasius]

Originally Posted by fable

No, I mean a retrospective that takes comments on Oblivion in development, to the press, and presents them today, in n article, with the truth firmly printed underneath each. That's what I want. Not a forum thread that's two years old.

Have you read Vauld Dwellers infamous Oblivion review? He did something like that pretty early.

And I wouldn't be surprised if such an Oblivion retrospective like you want it appears immediately before the release of Fallout 3 to counteract the inevitable hype. We'll see.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Amasius

And I wouldn't be surprised if such an Oblivion retrospective like you want it appears immediately before the release of Fallout 3 to counteract the inevitable hype. We'll see.

Indeed, we can only hope. I did my own review of Oblivion here, in which I gave it positive strokes as a kiddie title, which I think it basically is. Unfortunately, I couldn't review the pre-game hype. That wasn't part of the product. Though in retrospect, I rather wish I'd spent another 500 words explaining how so much PR about the game was utterly wrong. It wouldn't have been good journalism, but it would have made me feel much better.

[Brother None]

Originally Posted by Amasius

And I wouldn't be surprised if such an Oblivion retrospective like you want it appears immediately before the release of Fallout 3 to counteract the inevitable hype. We'll see.

If someone has the time and effort, but as said, people want to believe in the hype, which is why those kind of articles rarely work.

Oh, you sly wit, you.

Thank you.

[Fiberfar]

Originally Posted by fable

LOL! I mentioned waaay back after the game just came out that the claims some players were making for the AI were patently ridiculous--such as that NPCs could revise their own code. Several members refused to even listen. They wanted to believe the hype--the essence of PR is, after all, wanting to believe--so it was true. But Radiant AI was never that good, only a few extra possibilities thrown into standard AI they'd used in Morrowind.

But of course, Bethsoft's PR stuck resolutely by nonsense for the longest time, when it would still sell.

The people (editors I suppose) who created that hype would have made Goebbels jealous, it seems.

If you want a large mass of people to belive the crap you're giving them, hire someone who works with game PR.

[Tricky]

If I had, you know, an attention span, I'd build a site that kept track of the truthiness of PR claims. Gameclaims.com! And then release ratings only based on how a game has been marketed.

Aah, fortunately I have a rich imagination.

[DesR85]

I don't see a point in believing in the hype unless if the developers are able to live up to it. Most of the time, I just take them in a grain of salt. Better to try the game than to be sorry.

[Tricky]

Originally Posted by DesR85

I don't see a point in believing in the hype ..

True, it's of no direct consequence to you. But once heavily overhyped trash like Oblivion or Hellgate starts to decide what makes a game a decent game, it most certainly becomes a problem for everyone. And it takes perhaps one decade to make a new generation forget about the better RPG titles that came before.

I mean, we're paying them about fifty euros a game these days. Fifty! It takes absolutely no effort for these guys to overhype poop to the point they can spend twice the moneys on advertising poop 2.

Edit:

Now that I think about it, isn't it kinda weird that we're always paying the exact same amount for new games? I mean.. titles based on movies usually aren't in production for very long. By right Duke Nukem Forever should cost several thousand dollars a copy, it has been in production SO long.

Heh, it'll be like the Hoover dam. Twenty years from now they'll give guided tours to children at Gamestop and point at a shelf that has a dusty copy of Duke Nukem Forever on it. "Did you know twenty people DIED making that game? If you listen closely at night you can still hear them write code in vain on their ghostly keyboards."

[fable]

I'm curious: why would you consider Oblivion "trash?" It's a well-constructed game world, with a variety of interesting quests and NPCs. It's combat AI is competent. It is also horribly unbalanced, much blander in some respects than Morrowind, and dumbs down quests and puzzles so that 9 year olds can enjoy them. I do agree that the PR lied through its teeth repeatedly, and reviewers were snowed by Bethsoft's road show. Does that make the game garbage? Maybe the whole game review industry is trash, instead. What do you think?

[Tricky]

Well, suffice to say I can't even agree with your plus points. In my opinion Bethsoft only did a good job at scraping together all the licensed software they used to create Oblivion. What little they made themselves turned out to be.. not so good or significant. Like Radiant AI.

It's a well-constructed game world,

.. which outside is largely instanced and can feel quite garden-ish, if not completely generic in places that haven't been touched up. Inside we have invisible lightsources, solid windows and psychic guards.

with a variety of interesting quests

Where it varies, it does vary a lot. Unfortunately it doesn't veer away from the typical FedEx quest often enough to keep that interesting. Reward-wise, the game again disappoints either with useless levelled loot which sells for far too much, or faction advances that are quite insignificant, gameplay wise.

and NPCs.

Dialogue wise, no. Just no. There is too few of it per NPC, and what is there usually sounds fit for an episode of Sesame Street. They try to make up for it with jokes about powdered deer penis and orcs killing little children at their birthday parties. Only the beggars' dialogues were spoken with a specific character to them, but even they suddenly speak in clear Cyrodillic English if you click on a generic dialogue response.
I find certain voice overs quite phoney. Some actors more than certain specific dialogues, true, but it scars the entire experience. Deus Ex had dozens of voice actors, still more than we've seen in most games since. A large game like Oblivion could have benefited from that, but they decided to use even less actors than Morrowind (Orcs & Nords and Argonians & Kahjit have the same voice actors). Oh, and a couple of well paid celebrity actors.

It's combat AI is competent.

I've seen three types of behaviour. Either they run at you, they back away or they strafe a little bit and keep their distance. The AI does never intelligently make use of the surroundings, trick you into a trap or ambush, or sneaks up on you from behind. They more often than not fall to their own traps.

And that's just touching your pluses. Trust me when I say I know enough about Oblivion to write a very long and depressing thesis on why it is a trashy game.

You were testing me, weren't you?

[fable]

I cannot answer that on grounds that it will incriminate me.

Okay: I *was* trying to see if your use of the word "trash" was based only on a superficial reaction to the game plus the reactions of others, or whether you really, truly played Oblivion and came to your own conclusions as lengthy trial.

So, you win a kewpie doll.

I will say that I find the combat AI superior to Morrowind's, where enemies didn't run away, or even dodge much, and cast rather stupid spells while defenseless. In Oblivion, I've watched casters run after gutting their mana, archers slide sideways after being approached by someone with a sword, and companions *not* attack me when I hit them in the confusion of battle. This is all to the good. It is, though, not enough. The quests are variable in quality, the writing is good but often lackluster in characterization and condescending in its humor (as you note). The gameworld is physically charming, but a lot less interactive than its precedessor.

I still think it's a perfect kiddie game. And, when they grow a few years into some intellectual maturity, they can move onto Morrowind.