RPGs in Indie Gaming

[GameBanshee News]

A while ago Twenty Sided added some questions to an Xfire debate on independent development in general. The first question was "RPGs seem really over-represented in indie games. (Or, you could say they are under-represented in mainstream games.) Why do you think indie developers favor RPGs so much?" It has been pointed out to the author, Shamus, that this is not the case, but Rampant Coyote Jay's answer on indie RPGs is still interesting.

This one took me by surprise. Because they... uh, aren't, unless you consider the dearth of mainstream RPGs these days to be "well represented." Short answer. Long answer:

Looking at The Great Games Experiment, as of a few minutes ago, there were a total of 936 games tagged "indie," and only 95 of these were tagged "RPG" (and some of those might be considered more, "games with RPG elements" and really stretch the definition of RPG. But we'll roll with it). So --- that's a hair over 10% of the indie games. Actually, if one out of 10 indie games were RPGs, I'd be a heck of a lot busier than I already am. But we'll look closer.

Subtract out all the titles that are tagged "in development", and we find that over 1 in 3 of those RPGs (36) are in that often never-ending vaporware state, as compared to under 1 in 4 of the other indie genres (224). So the number of completed indie games falls down to about 8%.

I think, however, that those numbers are a little skewed based on the community over at GGE, and that casual games (most of which are indie) don't have the indie flag like they should. There's over 1900 of 'em, and only 400 are tagged "indie." So if you assume only 2 / 3 of the remainder are actually indie games that just aren't tagged as such, the indie RPG count drops in half. Naturally, some RPGs (and other indie games) may also be missing the tag, so this is all just conjecture. But hey, you know what they say about statistics.

I personally would be thrilled to believe that 5% of completed indie games are RPGs. I personally think its closer to about 1%, but even at the above 8%, I wouldn't consider them overrepresented.

As is Corvus' answer:

As many people have pointed out to Shamus, RPGs aren’t actually well represented in the indie scene if you take a look at the big picture. But I think what Shamus is trying to get at here is that on average, there are more indie RPGs than AAA RPGs in any given year. That assumption, of course, means ignoring all the JRPGs, the MMOs and the Sword and Sorcery dungeon crawlers (many of which are being released on the DS (woohoo!)). But if we narrow our definition of RPG to mean western style, AD&D-descended stat-based games with plenty of delivery quests and little to no need for any manual dexterity… he’s got a point.

Many of the comments on Shamus’s post pointed out that RPGs don’t need top notch graphics and are therefore easier and cheaper to develop… to which I reply, “HA! Are you MAD?!” Listen, I (that’s the theoretic ‘I’) could download any number of open source engines and cobble together a nice looking FPS for you. Seriously. While attaining the polygon-pushing power of the Unreal Engine is outside an indie engine’s grasp, OGRE, Crystal Space and Sauerbraten all provide increasingly impressive visuals with every release. Not to mention, I could use the HL2 engine, or the Unreal engine, and via extensive modding, create entirely new games with those engines level of graphics fidelity.

The fact is, RPG development is expensive. It requires a lot of time, a lot of talent and a lot of patience. The underlying mechanics of a FPS are pretty simple, even if it’s an innovative approach like Portal. The mechanics underlying a RPG are complex! Trust me, even designing the combat mechanics for a pen and paper RPG can be an extensive process of balancing and refining. The reason indie devs are willing to tackle this niche RPG market is that not only do we have the passion to make this sort of game, but we don’t have an accounting department to answer to. Publishers want to maximize return on investment. Spend as little as possible on development, sell as many copies as possible. That means that sprawling RPGs simply don’t get funded much anymore. The vast majority of people who buy them don’t experience a vast majority of the content, so a publisher looks at a spreadsheet (or four) and asks, “Why pay to build the content?”

Indie devs are not only able to follow their bliss and we get by on much smaller profit margins. Many of us work an extra job, or work under contract for other games, or both in order to pay the bills. This allows us the luxury of taking our time and making exactly the game we want to play and hoping another fifty or a hundred people will want to play it too.

[fable]

I'm surprised somebody thought RPGs were "over-represented" among indie titles, too. A quick look at any 10 indie sites will simply show that isn't the case. Arcades, casual match-3's, strategy titles: these are everywhere. You'll find RPGs, but in much smaller quantity, and far fewer sites.

[RampantCoyote]

I think Shamus has recanted that particular position by now. But I think that serves to really illustrate how hard it is to be aware of what's going on in the world of indie games. With the indies, you don't get dozens of magazines and hundreds of gaming websites blasting out ads and previews and countdowns and all the other things that gamers are used to seeing to stay informed about what's going on in the gaming world. With indies, you sometimes have to really hunt them down and shake 'em down just to get them to sell you their game!

I'm actually not kidding on this last point. I've seen some indie developers where the distribution and purchasing process is just... bizarre and arcane.

[fable]

Originally Posted by RampantCoyote

I think Shamus has recanted that particular position by now. But I think that serves to really illustrate how hard it is to be aware of what's going on in the world of indie games. With the indies, you don't get dozens of magazines and hundreds of gaming websites blasting out ads and previews and countdowns and all the other things that gamers are used to seeing to stay informed about what's going on in the gaming world. With indies, you sometimes have to really hunt them down and shake 'em down just to get them to sell you their game!

Actually, there are many sites that focus solely on indie games: Big Fish Games, Gamezebo, Winter Wolves, Viqua, Manifesto Games, GameTrove, Shrapnel Games, PlayFirst, etc. It's easy to take a look at several of these, and realize where the bulk of indie games are trending.

[RampantCoyote]

Many of those you mention sell specific kinds of games though - mostly casual, though Shrapnel specializes in strategy / war games (as does Matrix games). Manifesto, at least, is trying hard to sell "core" indie games of many other genres as opposed to casual.

But I have found a lot of indie games - specifically indie RPGs, since I kinda hunt 'em - that never appear on any portal, and that it is sometimes only chance that leads me to them. Granted, a lot of 'em aren't really all that good, and are obscure for a reason. But I'd guess that for every game you see at these aggregators, there are around three other finished indie games out there hiding on some obscure website.

[fable]

Originally Posted by RampantCoyote

Many of those you mention sell specific kinds of games though - mostly casual, though Shrapnel specializes in strategy / war games (as does Matrix games). Manifesto, at least, is trying hard to sell "core" indie games of many other genres as opposed to casual.

But that's the point, isn't it? The statement being addressed is ""RPGs seem really over-represented in indie games." Yet you can easily find out enough information to lay this myth to rest by checking out those sites I listed.

[RampantCoyote]

True. I was discussing a different point altogether - how hard it can be to actually find many indie games... the majority, IMO, cannot be found on portals.

[fable]

Originally Posted by RampantCoyote

True. I was discussing a different point altogether - how hard it can be to actually find many indie games... the majority, IMO, cannot be found on portals.

But you can find quite a few indie RPGs on Manifesto. They're just not around in the numbers that other indie games are, probably because the development time is much longer than that required for a casual title, an arcade, or even an RTS.