Losing many users

[KidD01]

Buck Sir,

I don't mean to be rude here but I don't think you should listen to those negative posts. I agree it's not easy running this awesome site, especially maintaining it in such a great performance with such bandwidth.

As for those who want to know the details I think it's best to ask via PM to Buck before and rather than posting such a provoking post.
And posting such post like :

Personally, I like the site, but I won't be back. And I will be telling several people and local game shops that the site has commercialized and sold out.

is definately not a nice comment.

<EDIT> Let's see :
User Name : Logicool
Registered : Jul 2002
Total Post : 1 on 5 Jul 2002

Is this fella register just to post such provoking post only ?

[crowbraid]

My concerns have been answered.
I bow three times.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

On the other hand @KidD01, this is a thread for discussing Buck's decision, and if people have negative comments they wish to make then they too should be able to post them. As far as I can tell Buck has easily justified his move in the face of logicool's objections, and that answer's that particular concern.
It's all good.

[KidD01]

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
On the other hand @KidD01, this is a thread for discussing Buck's decision, and if people have negative comments they wish to make then they too should be able to post them. As far as I can tell Buck has easily justified his move in the face of logicool's objections, and that answer's that particular concern.
It's all good.

The way that fella write on his/her post clearly shows hostile attention toward GB and I doubt he/she try to open a discussion with such post. Yet, I'm glad Buck can shove all the answers into his/her face. Way to go All Mighty One ! http://gamebanshee.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Skeelo]

Have to say that I am quite disappointed in GB's move to paid access for the game help sections. There is just far too many more sites that offer the same information for free....I really don't see why anyone would want to pay money when they can just find it somewhere else. It's just a classic example of competition, and I'll tell you people something...there is such thing as a free on lunch on the internet. It's a world of free information and I'm not about to go about paying for it!

Buck if you are having troubles affording this server you should really just look for a better solution. You can find colos out there with plenty of bandwidth for less than $100/mo.

I do enjoy the forums thanks for not making them pay only!

[Tamerlane]

@ Skeelo.

Please have a good look at what you are saying here. Whilst I agree that many of the information can be found else where. I doubt that they would be as presentable or even detailed as those found on the GB network. Sites like IGN whilst containing a bundle of information have full page advertisements and flash ads that scroll across the pages that you are reading. I always visited GB first when it came to finding information, and unlike many other sites. Buck actually offers the option of putting in your own suggestions or even placing in your own tips and walk throughs without taking away the credit.

And the boards in their selves cost money too, IIRC this one cost a fair amount. Another thing I hate about other sites, nice flashy networks but terrible boards.

[BuckGB]

Originally posted by Skeelo
Have to say that I am quite disappointed in GB's move to paid access for the game help sections. There is just far too many more sites that offer the same information for free....I really don't see why anyone would want to pay money when they can just find it somewhere else. It's just a classic example of competition, and I'll tell you people something...there is such thing as a free on lunch on the internet. It's a world of free information and I'm not about to go about paying for it!

Yes, there are sites out there that have similar information, no doubt about it. However, there are a few reasons why I feel a Flashlink subscription is well worth it:

- Some information cannot be found other places, or would take a considerable amount of time to compile from free sites. For example, you'd be hard pressed to find another site that details every single piece of equipment from *all* Infinity Engine games (and NWN, Vampire, etc) complete with a screenshot of its description and a list of every single location it can be found. Also, GameBanshee offers the largest, most extensive equipment database for Dark Age of Camelot... all MySQL driven. It currently covers over 5000 items and is *very* fast to search. The only other sites that I know of that have equipment databases for DAoC (and they aren't as big) are Allakhazam and DAoC Spoilers. Allakhazam has a subscription service as well, and DAoC Spoilers is part of Flashlink. This type of information is very tough to find on free sites because it takes an enormous amount of time and effort.

- Buying a Flashlink subscription doesn't just give you access to GameBanshee. Members get access to many other gaming sites, including the best EverQuest sites on the internet (and Camelot sites, like DAoC Spoilers I mentioned above). Additionally, with the advertising market being absolutely terrible, there will no doubt be many other sites that join Flashlink in the near future.

- You enable GameBanshee to become even better. Already, we've put a ton of information about a plethora of different RPGs accessible from one spot. If we get enough subscribers, there will be revenue to actually pay an additional editor or two to make the information people want more advanced and in-depth.

Originally posted by Skeelo
Buck if you are having troubles affording this server you should really just look for a better solution. You can find colos out there with plenty of bandwidth for less than $100/mo.

If you know of a great hosting provider that will give us the server speed and bandwidth that we require for $100, then please let me know. Still, however, there are a lot of reasons I wouldn't want to switch from Verio. They are the largest hosting provider in the world, and for good reason. Their service is excellent, they monitor every IP they host, promise 99.99% uptime, and more. How often has GameBanshee ever been inaccessible? Since upgrading the server some time ago, how often has speed ever been an issue? I surf many gaming sites myself, and many of them are not nearly as quick and reliable as ours.

[VoodooDali]

Buck--just want to say thanks again for running GB. Yes, it's true you can find some of the info on other sites, but you have to put up with a lot. Buck has given us so much for free for so long, that I will gladly pay for using a walkthrough or whatever.

When I was going through Morrowind for the first time, there were not enough posts on GB to help me out with problems and I had to go to Morrowinds official forum for help instead. This made me truly appreciate GB and how well and fast it runs. I must have written 10 emails to the Morrowind folks, telling them how their forums were wayyyy too slow (pages would take 5-10 minutes to load on broadband connection)--and their servers were frequently down (and this from a large company with a big budget for a forum!). I often used GB as an example to them of how to run a forum--I wrote so many emails to them that I am now on a first-name basis with their support guy, lol.

Another example is microsoft's zone--I play the occasional card game and have been constantly amazed at the lack of mod's there, and the constant insults and vulgarity being hurled at other players, many of whom are children. The Zone has made me appreciate all the effort of the mod's at GB to keep GB a fun and civil place. There really aren't too many places on the web where the administrator and mod's are so responsive to the users.

Anyway, Buck, I have been amazed at your dedication and the way you have kept this site going. My own business has a website, and they are much more expensive to put up and maintain and market than people realize (I think we've put $10k into it by now, just in it's first 6 months)--a professional website is not the same as putting up a homepage on Angelfire! As far as server costs go--Buck's costs sound about the same as the one we use (which my brother's company owns)--so while there may be servers advertising low rates, I am skeptical that those rates are for real.

Don't let 'em get ya down, Buck.

[Indi]

I know this may sound like a bit of a stupid question, but why bother??? honestly if it's causing so much of a hole in your pocket why bother? I know you may think "i'm a good guy, delivering a public service to the good people out there"

But to be quite honest....your not, your just another lapdog for a big money greedy corporation.. they don't care what you do they just want money money money money! that's all they're interested in, and they just dragged you in with it.

You will probably reply to this post by saying like "no they don't I want to continue my good job for the people", "What do you know?"

I'll tell you what I know.... not to get dragged into anything involving $$$$ 4 numbers, because once you do you'll find yourself in a heap of trouble.

[Arimus]

I've been using GB for information on games for a long time and I can tell you his item databases are without equal. The site is solid and fast, and the information accurate, detailed, and updated often. I challange anyone to give me a site with better item/spell information than GB (that includes the Prima guides). There isn't one, I've looked. The real question is: Is the information worth the money? Well, that is up to the individual.

Buck,

Thanks for all the great work and effort. Had I known internet advertising was so terrible and site maintenance so expensive, I would have donated. I'll be signing up as soon as i pry the credit card from my wife! (hehe)

[Yshania]

@Arimus - finally a new member with something nice to say! Welcome to Gamebanshee - I am sure you will enjoy your stay

Frankly I do not understand all the angst and bad attitude in this thread. Why should Buck have to justify himself personally to people who have never contributed to the site?? This site - which Buck referred to as "ours" in his post - is more than an outstanding reference library, it is a community, and one of the finest, well moderated and mature that I have come across. Who do these people think they are? It is £12 he is asking for, for a wealth of accurate information - information that is also contributed to by the Gamebanshee community. Those that choose to register to complain are selfish IMO, if you don't like it why did you bother signing up to say so? Was it really worth your effort? I have seen nothing more negative than a general disappointment that it has come to subscription from existing and more long term members, though the vast majority have been supportive and in fact surprised at the small amount that has been requested...did you ranters know that Buck had tried to avoid this? There was a donations route, but not enough took it seriously until there is no choice.

The forums are still free, this will help those that can't afford to subscribe and this in itself was a generous move IMO.

[Nippy]

Originally posted by Yshania
@Arimus - finally a new member with something nice to say! Welcome to Gamebanshee - I am sure you will enjoy your stay

[/quote]

Ditto.

Originally posted by Yshania
It is £12 he is asking for

No Ysh, he's asking for $12, thats about £8! It's nothing really.

[RandomThug]

I am relativly new here, actually EXTREMLY new. I already found this site overwhelming with info, and a community that cant be touched ANYWHERE else I look. I sign onto the internet and hit penny arcade and gamebanshee.... nothing else matters. Buck doesnt just labor, he SLAVES over his website... it is his webpage, his baby his project. He knows what he puts into it, and if he wanted to charge from the begining he would have. The man WATCHED himself go into debt over a webpage about gaming. I mean crap when I loose a couple bucks over playing poker with my friends I get pissed off... this guy went big bucks under just to provide a service.

I bow to Bucks strength as a person, his ability to handle all the crap of life and still rip out decent news everyday, update the site etc etc etc. I recently have moved so I cant contribute to the news till I get online at home, all i have is these short moments at work but it is enough.

Selling out? The man is in debt, he isnt selling anything... he is digging his way out... selling out is when you do something to profit off of it. He doesnt even know if flashlink will get him what he needs yet... ye who points the finger and curses Buck for charging is a man/woman who can not understand the feeling of true labor. The feeling of working for ever on something you love, watching it slowly fall (his increasing debt).

Imagine Buck over at his side... watching himself go into debt, it is OBVIUOS he LOVES Gamebanshee... I doubt he would be anything but destroyed if he had to cancell it. So shut your little traps and understand that this webpage is more than just some info place... and Buck is more than some website dude...

Anyhow Im almost off work... you got me all wired up... Not only should you subscribe if you want the info. You should DONATE out of respect. Realize bucks running the show. Just BUCK. One man. Sure others help but Buck runs the show, bucks the captain... bucks the man... ok im ranting... back to work...

thug

[The Z]

Buck has been lauded many times over, and though it may sound repetitive, I have to thank him for the effort he's made to keep the site alive, and available to whomever needs it. Though I cannot subscribe (due to my parents monitering the money I earn), I do think that keeping the forums free was a noble act, and though I can't use the wonderful tomes of knowledge here, I can interact with RPG'ers from around the globe in a peaceful, helpful, and commune place. Plus, flashlink is cheaper than a gaming magazine subscription.

[Bloodstalker]

I will say this much. I have been around to tons of gaming sights on the net. I have been there when some closed down. But this is the only sight I have been on that keeps me hanging around. Like has already been stated, there is a strong community thing going on here. Not only that, the fact is that in my opinion, for my own personal choice, I think this sight has more info and has it set in a way that is more accesible than any I have been to. I think it is worth it.

As far as selling out, selling who out? I have heard this term applied to everything from music to gaming to political figures. I don't see the validity of the term. For one thing, Buck runs the sight. Buck does most of the work, and has been paying out of his own pocket for quite some time so that the sight could stay free. And to be absolutly honest, if Buck started making a ton off this sight, who really cares? It is not immoral or unethical to turm a profit. While I doubt that this was his motivating factor, the 0nly other alternative would seem to be to shut the sight down. For what? That would only take away access for those willing to pay for the use. And the only reason I have seen presented for that is so he doesn't "sell out" or become a "slave to corporation". Both arguments are trivial. If anyone visits this sight, then they are in possesion of a computer( which they likely bought from a money grubbing corporation) and are paying yet ANOTHER corporation for their connection to the internet. That is the way things are. You purchase survices or merchandise.
I am frankly amazed that the sight has stayed free for so long. How many of those complaining would be willing to pay out of their own pockets to keep this place free? And it's not like Buck is making dictorial decisions. No one says that anyone has to pay anything. No one is forced into a contract. If you don't want to pay, fine. there are many that will not. I understand that, and can honestly see their reasoning. But to attack someone for no other reason than to make accusations of selling out is absurd. There is no point to it, and it won't change things. And in all honesty, that is simply the way things work. You don't get something for nothing. And everyone who buys anything, be it music, games, computers, anything, is contributing to the profits of one of those big corporations that they say no one should contribute to.

After all, Buck has asked for help with this sight. Even now, the forums remain free. That in itself is a great indication to Buck's way of thinking.He didn't have to do it that way, but he understood that many who post often here were not able to pay for it. So, he let that slide. If he were the money grubber some have portrayed him as, he would not have cared.

So, I'm just glad that the sight will stay up. I have friends here, and I like the interaction between the members. So if you don't want to pay, ok. If you never return, that is perfectly understandable and your choice. But have the class to just eave and not sling insults. It only makes people take you less seriously.