Fallout 3 Info and Good screenshots

[Malta Soron]

Where'd you get that from?

[The Great Hairy]

Originally Posted by asure

It's not real.

Fallout 3 will not be made it completely.

Are you saying Fallout 3 won't be made? Or something else?

As for it not being made - Bethesda is apparently working on a Fallout 3 project. Whether or not it will be recognisable as a Fallout game, or will be something completely different, we won't be able to say until much further on in dev.

Cheers,
TGHO

[Luis Antonio]

Originally Posted by Nihilanth

I'd be OK with a multiplayer... As long as it is like Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale... (the characters in the same party...)

I'm not telling that I want a poor game, but an efficient single player campaign with good story and many many perks with good graphics will already be ok, dontcha think?

So, MP may be left aside, IMO.

[Sinclair]

Bethesda's probably going to ruin it. They're not BIS, they're not even Troika (great at thinking, not so great at delivering fully finished games).

They're most likely going to make Morrowind a la Wasteland. I know a lot of people liked Morrowind, but I found it to be a fundamentally empty-feeling game. So much to do, so little to define your character by in terms of anything but numbers and equipment. Is it really a roleplaying game if you're not really playing a role? It was the sort of game where being lost wasn't a good thing, because it just led to more quests from character-less characters.

Fallout and Fallout 2 are notable for their characters, their "feel", and their general atmosphere. Dark humour, a little bit of edginess, things that make you smile a little bit. These are all things that Morrowind didn't have. What reason would there be to believe that Fallout 3 will have them?

[The Great Hairy]

The simple reason that Fallout 1 & 2 have a lot of fans, and if made "correctly" will make a lot of money.

Don't get down on Bethesda just yet. I would agree with you, Sinc, that Morrowind is a little hollow in feeling (and I really didn't like Daggerfall or Arena) but that does not necessarily mean that they are going to stick to the Elder Scrolls style for their Fallout project. Also remember that the Elder Scrolls team is going to be busy for the next year or so working on Oblivion, so they may palm development of F3 off to another team (with a different style in mind).

It all comes down to "don't count your chickens..."

Cheers,
TGHO

[Sinclair]

Originally Posted by The Great Hairy

The simple reason that Fallout 1 & 2 have a lot of fans, and if made "correctly" will make a lot of money.

Don't get down on Bethesda just yet. I would agree with you, Sinc, that Morrowind is a little hollow in feeling (and I really didn't like Daggerfall or Arena) but that does not necessarily mean that they are going to stick to the Elder Scrolls style for their Fallout project. Also remember that the Elder Scrolls team is going to be busy for the next year or so working on Oblivion, so they may palm development of F3 off to another team (with a different style in mind).

It all comes down to "don't count your chickens..."

Cheers,
TGHO

I wouldn't count my chickens if BIS was still making it, after all, there were 4 Fallout games: 2 were golden and I wish I could forget them so I could play them again, 1 was an adequate tactical shooter pockmarked with flaws that was disappointing to everyone, and 1 was a completely worthless console game that I shouldn't have spent money on.

I wouldn't count my chickens if Troika was making it, as they have a tendency to make games that are great, but unfinished. Arcanum, for instance, is fabulous, but there are all sorts of flaws (combat f'rinstance) that drag it down. Temple of Elemental Evil may have been one of the buggiest games ever.

But that's "it's-gonna-be-good" chicken-counting. When it comes to "why-are-they-doing-this" chicken-counting, I will bet that Fallout 3 will be poisoned by Bethesda. Even if the people responsible for Morrowind don't make the game, it will still reportedly be using a first-person engine. WHY? WHY? WHY GODDAMMIT? What is the point of handing off something that could be glorious to people who will most likely make it anything but?

[The Great Hairy]

Originally Posted by Sinclair

I wouldn't count my chickens if BIS was still making it, after all, there were 4 Fallout games: 2 were golden and I wish I could forget them so I could play them again, 1 was an adequate tactical shooter pockmarked with flaws that was disappointing to everyone, and 1 was a completely worthless console game that I shouldn't have spent money on.

Note that BIS was owned by Interplay, who made that console game. Absolutely no guarantee that if BIS was making F3, they'd make a "good" version.

Originally Posted by Sinclair

I wouldn't count my chickens if Troika was making it, as they have a tendency to make games that are great, but unfinished. Arcanum, for instance, is fabulous, but there are all sorts of flaws (combat f'rinstance) that drag it down. Temple of Elemental Evil may have been one of the buggiest games ever.

And if Trokia was making it - it would probably use the Half Life 2 engine, as Vampire Bloodlines did. And thus would be a First person style game. Anyway, Trokia is rumoured to be working on a post-apocalypse game for their next release, so that may fulfil the F3 requirements.

Originally Posted by Sinclair

But that's "it's-gonna-be-good" chicken-counting. When it comes to "why-are-they-doing-this" chicken-counting, I will bet that Fallout 3 will be poisoned by Bethesda. Even if the people responsible for Morrowind don't make the game, it will still reportedly be using a first-person engine. WHY? WHY? WHY GODDAMMIT? What is the point of handing off something that could be glorious to people who will most likely make it anything but?

We don't know if it is going to be bad. We don't know if it is going to be good. Morrowind, whilst not your cup of tea, is played and loved by a lot of people. Bethesda may not produce the F3 you are hoping for, but they may produce a F3 which is bought by hundreds of thousands of people.

My feelings at the moment are that it's not worth getting worked up over. Eventually more details will come to light, and we can make an informed judgement on the game. With the derth of information we currently have, there is no point in declaring "it's gunna be bad!" or visa versa.

Yes, Bethesda is making it. So? We don't know who the writer is. Who the designers are. What system they are using (SPECIAL/d20/whatever). What engine. What structure. We know almost nothing about the development! Until we have more info, there is no point in making judgement calls.

Cheers,
TGHO

[Sinclair]

The Great Hairy sez:

Note that BIS was owned by Interplay, who made that console game. Absolutely no guarantee that if BIS was making F3, they'd make a "good" version.

*I didn't say there was a guarantee. I mentioned that the last 2 Fallout games were lousy.*

And if Trokia was making it - it would probably use the Half Life 2 engine, as Vampire Bloodlines did. And thus would be a First person style game. Anyway, Trokia is rumoured to be working on a post-apocalypse game for their next release, so that may fulfil the F3 requirements.

*Screenshots have been released, and the postapocalyptic game looks to be third-person rotatable. They would be more likely to make Fallout 3 third-person, as Troika has people on it who were responsible for the good Fallout games. Plus, even if they made it first-person, at least they'd be able to inject it with some measure of what the other Fallout games had, hopefully. Looking at Morrowind, the closest thing to what Bethesda is supposed to be making Fallout 3, well.....*

We don't know if it is going to be bad. We don't know if it is going to be good. Morrowind, whilst not your cup of tea, is played and loved by a lot of people. Bethesda may not produce the F3 you are hoping for, but they may produce a F3 which is bought by hundreds of thousands of people.

*Morrowind is liked for different reasons than the Fallout games. Sure, if they just make it Morrowind-with-mutants, it may sell hundreds of thousands of copies. But volume of sale is no indication of quality.

Regardless of whether or not it is a good game objectively, I have deep-seated doubts as to whether it will be a good Fallout sequel.*

My feelings at the moment are that it's not worth getting worked up over. Eventually more details will come to light, and we can make an informed judgement on the game. With the derth of information we currently have, there is no point in declaring "it's gunna be bad!" or visa versa.

*I can look at what information has been released, and make a prediction. If I'm wrong, I'll be pretty damn happy, as I'll be able to play a decent Fallout game.*

Yes, Bethesda is making it. So? We don't know who the writer is. Who the designers are. What system they are using (SPECIAL/d20/whatever). What engine. What structure. We know almost nothing about the development! Until we have more info, there is no point in making judgement calls.

*It's been reported they're gonna use the engine of the next Elder Scrolls game. That already suggests it will be a real-time FPS-type game. Why they would try to fix what isn't broken, I don't know. But it bodes poorly.*

*I'm really more angry at Interplay than anything else. They frittered away time and money with Tactics and PoS, then killed BIS. Business incompetence, as far as I'm concerned, will be responsible if FO3 is lousy. Bethesda will just have been an accessory to the whole sorry affair.*

[The Great Hairy]

Originally Posted by Sinclair

I didn't say there was a guarantee. I mentioned that the last 2 Fallout games were lousy.

Well, I didn't mind Tactics too much, but it wasn't the best (and developed by MicroForte, not BIS anyway). That said, I don't think BIS (if they still existed) under Interplay could be "trusted" any more than Bethesda.

Originally Posted by Sinclair

Screenshots have been released, and the postapocalyptic game looks to be third-person rotatable.

They have?!?! Where??? I can't find them on the Trokia site... Got a link??

Originally Posted by Sinclair

They would be more likely to make Fallout 3 third-person, as Troika has people on it who were responsible for the good Fallout games.

Yes, but they have licensed the Half Life 2 engine, and need to make enough money to pay that debt. And with Vampire being well received, I would expect that they would use that engine. However, I may be wrong. Even if the screenies are from a third person perspective, don't discard the possibility that it is the HL2 engine, and thus has a first person view available.

Originally Posted by Sinclair

Plus, even if they made it first-person, at least they'd be able to inject it with some measure of what the other Fallout games had, hopefully. Looking at Morrowind, the closest thing to what Bethesda is supposed to be making Fallout 3, well.....

Yeah, but reading up on Oblivion the developers have said that they are taking people's complaints about the "souless" and "empty-feeling" of the world to heart, and plan on making Elder Scrolls 4 much more "alive". Now, whether they do or not is another discussion, however this does, IMO, bode well for any Fallout game Bethesda produces.

Originally Posted by Sinclair

Morrowind is liked for different reasons than the Fallout games. Sure, if they just make it Morrowind-with-mutants, it may sell hundreds of thousands of copies. But volume of sale is no indication of quality.

Aye, I agree. Look at Dungeon Siege. Garbage game, but sold enough copies to ensure a sequel.

Originally Posted by Sinclair

Regardless of whether or not it is a good game objectively, I have deep-seated doubts as to whether it will be a good Fallout sequel.

<Shrug> Like I said before, I still think it is too early. Hardly any details have been released. And even if details have been released, it is such a long time until the game is actually produced, that any details made public are sure to be changed or altered significantly in the actual game.

Originally Posted by Sinclair

I can look at what information has been released, and make a prediction. If I'm wrong, I'll be pretty damn happy, as I'll be able to play a decent Fallout game.

Predictions are all well and good, but don't get stuck to them. And remember, they are not infallible either. You well might be wrong!

Originally Posted by Sinclair

It's been reported they're gonna use the engine of the next Elder Scrolls game. That already suggests it will be a real-time FPS-type game. Why they would try to fix what isn't broken, I don't know. But it bodes poorly.

It's been reported now. Have they even got past the design phase? Are they actually into production? Oblivion's engine, AFAIK, is quite different to Morrowind's engine. And on top of that, we don't know if they are going to just use the engine straight, or modify it to make it more "Falloutish".

Originally Posted by Sinclair

I'm really more angry at Interplay than anything else. They frittered away time and money with Tactics and PoS, then killed BIS. Business incompetence, as far as I'm concerned, will be responsible if FO3 is lousy. Bethesda will just have been an accessory to the whole sorry affair.

Interplay has been in trouble since the late 90's. They were a PoS company then, and after Titus bought them out they just got worse. I loved it when Bioware told them to get stuffed, and broke their agreement.

However, I don't think you can lump Bethesda in with Interplay. Bethesda simply had enough money to buy the Fallout license. We'll just have to wait and see what they do with it!

Cheers,
TGHO

[Sinclair]

But if they screw it up, I will cry tears of rage and unfulfillable vengeance.

Also, I think I saw the screenshots for the Troika PA game here at GB.

Right about now, I'd pay money for a game using the Fallout 2 engine. I'd pay money for a big, high-quality mod. Screw graphics!

[Luis Antonio]

Just like Baldur's gate... you play it by the game, not by last generation graphics.

[Badseed]

Originally Posted by Sinclair

Right about now, I'd pay money for a game using the Fallout 2 engine. I'd pay money for a big, high-quality mod. Screw graphics!

Hell yeah, I'd pay money for a good FO2 engine based Fallout 3 game. Interplay management needs to have read this.

[Xandax]

Originally Posted by Sinclair

But if they screw it up, I will cry tears of rage and unfulfillable vengeance.
<snip>

Well - most Fallout Fans are so used to being "ignored" that I think much of the community actually dosen't really care if Bethesda makes it "un-fallout-type" (ei. Morrowind with Guns).
Sure there will be some flaming towards Bethesda and some unrest on various forums/communities - but basically - the Fallout-community is Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 and thus will survive on that.
What is troubleling is that many newcommers to the genre would see this poor version of Fallout 3 and think that is what Fallout RPGs are all about and thus not bother with Fallout 1 and 2, and that would be a shame, because even with outdated graphics - Fallout 1 and 2 are still an importent part of CRPG history and should be played by people that like RPGs.

But anyways - to make the short story long - then we'll still have to wait and see. I've yet seen any significant news about Fallout 3 or anything - that I'm starting to wonder if Bethesda really is co-developing ES:IV and Fallout 3 or they just claimed they were to ease the fans when they bought the licenes

[The Great Hairy]

Originally Posted by Badseed

Hell yeah, I'd pay money for a good FO2 engine based Fallout 3 game. Interplay management needs to have read this.

Uh, you realise that there isn't an "Interplay mangement" anymore, right? They have shut down. Stopped trading. Ceased to be. If you hadn't nailed it to the pearch... And even if they did exist, they sold the rights to Fallout to Bestheda. They couldn't make a Fallout game even if they still existed.

Cheers,
TGHO

[Badseed]

Thanks for the detailed correction. Although I was referring to the past 'management', that is why I used the word 'have', it is past-tense. I was trying to make the point that if Interplay had just released a FO2 based game, it would have created some extra profit, and they would have been better off. Now whether or not they would have ruined it for us is another discussion/opinion.