Any New Ideas?

[Lazigothi]

I love the jet pack idea but would prefer to avoid minigames with skills. I found the roleplaying to be my biggest draw to the game, and I'd enjoy continued interaction on that level.

I like the other idea of going beyond California. It could be anywhere. I love, actually, that one could choose to be the Chosen One and be any race from any country. I was thinking an ideal entryway/climax could involve either: 1) orbital platform; 2) biodome. Some place that initially wanted a managerie of all aspects of human life in an idealized yet homogenized, self-sustained environment gone horribly wrong. Maybe it was like the leftover of some crazy ultra-villain's dream for an Utopia a la Bond. Maybe you can get that ol' Shuttle to work again that's parked in San Francisco. Or, actually being able to start in any part of the globe. Maybe underwater. The vault idea can be anywhere.

What I would like to see would be gizmo's that perhaps parody Star Trek of the 60's from heaters to tricorders. Maybe parodies of Bond gadgets.

If things have improved after the past games, then maybe a parody of current trends for alternate energy sources from hybrids, solar, wind, ethanol, gases from pig poop, the power of magnets, etc. There should in any case have been a return to ships with sails, travel by horse & buggy, pterodactyl beaks to play records. Maybe even land craft that uses sails over windy plains areas. Gliders could be used from clifftops. Maybe everyone wears sundial wris****ches. As far as bullets, the tech to recreate gunpowder and shells would be there. Old Fallout weapons from Spears to knives would still be handy, perhaps a return to swords.

[Xandax]

Originally Posted by Shao-Loki

It just can't be more advanced than DOS. After all, this is Fallout, and computer languages were not terribly sophisticated in the 50's and 60's. Mostly machine-code, IIRC.

Besides, if they used a *real* language, then only the l33t3st of the l33t would be able to interact with the computers....hence then commands displayed off to the side, with a higher computer/science skill yielding more commands. All the commands are still there, but you get told about more of them with a high Intelligence / Science rating.

-Loki

50's and 60's "programming" is all but non existing and would likely have been "punch card" on mainframes (DOS did not appear for many years), so from a technological apsect you would already have to bend the rules. However, one also has to remember that development in the Fallout universe does differ from "50's and 60's" earth, it is just used as a placesetting - an atmopshere. Many things in Fallout universe go well beyond the 50's and 60's techonology (weapon, armor and robotics to mention a few).

Also a pitfall with that line of idea would be that a character with low science skill would be able to extract more/the same information as a character with high science skill, if indeed the interaction with computers would be "player-enabled" so that "I" as a player would be able to interact based on some syntax language. That would go against what Fallout SPECIAL is about that it is the skills and stats which determine what you can get out.
Thus if such commands are to be displayed, they should be impossible to enter manually (for the player) but only as selections possible, meaning if you have skill X you get Choices A, B and C displayed but if you have twice times X you can get A, B, C, D, E and F displayed - and interaction can only occur form these choices. Then it could work, but then it would be similar to the existing Fallouts (but with more choices/usage for computers).
Attempting to mirror (or use) a real life language would be fun the first time, but could be come tedious and would be irrelevant for multiple playthroughs.

A pitfall in RPGs is metaknowlegde which is information the player knows and can use, but which the character wouldn't know and be able to use..

[Shao-Loki]

I've always liked minigames. Especially hacking/computer minigames. I thought they were a lot of fun. But metaknowledge could get in the way, you're right. However, I would like more interactivity.

[Shao-Loki]

Originally Posted by Xandax

50's and 60's "programming" is all but non existing and would likely have been "punch card" on mainframes (DOS did not appear for many years), so from a technological apsect you would already have to bend the rules. However, one also has to remember that development in the Fallout universe does differ from "50's and 60's" earth, it is just used as a placesetting - an atmopshere. Many things in Fallout universe go well beyond the 50's and 60's techonology (weapon, armor and robotics to mention a few).

You're right, but then, keep this in mind. The computer systems for the F-16 were designed in 1962. Or thereabouts. A computer the size of a shoebox keeps that airplane flying, as well as alerting the pilot, running "Bitchin' Betty," and handling targeting. Granted, some improvements have definitely been made over the years (all aircraft and other military technology gets upgraded periodically), but it worked in the 60's.

Further, rudimentary and experimental programming took place in the late forties using vaccuum tubes, prior to the development of the transistor.

Also bear in mind that whatever is on the civilian market is about ten to fifteen years behind the cutting edge stuff select military departments use, which is ten to fifteen years behind what's in development or on the drawing board.

Now, with that diatribe over with, some speculation. The Roswell crash occurred sometime in the late 40's (1947 IIRC). The first transistor was produced by Bell Labs in 1953. Bell was the primary communications contractor for the miliitary and U.S. Government in the early days of telecommunication (hence the handle "Ma Bell"), and as such, had a LOT of experience with electronics. They also had more technical resources and educated people on hand than the military/gov't.

Further, no one can truly prove why modern electronics work, only that they do. Electronic theory is exactly that: THEORY.

Thus, I submit for your consideration: All modern electronics technology is reverse-engineered alien technology.

So, in a Fallout universe, having a functioning computer language wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

;-)
-Loki

[Xandax]

Originally Posted by Shao-Loki

You're right, but then, keep this in mind. The computer systems for the F-16 were designed in 1962. Or thereabouts. A computer the size of a shoebox keeps that airplane flying, as well as alerting the pilot, running "Bitchin' Betty," and handling targeting. Granted, some improvements have definitely been made over the years (all aircraft and other military technology gets upgraded periodically), but it worked in the 60's.

Further, rudimentary and experimental programming took place in the late forties using vaccuum tubes, prior to the development of the transistor.

Also bear in mind that whatever is on the civilian market is about ten to fifteen years behind the cutting edge stuff select military departments use, which is ten to fifteen years behind what's in development or on the drawing board.

Now, with that diatribe over with, some speculation. The Roswell crash occurred sometime in the late 40's (1947 IIRC). The first transistor was produced by Bell Labs in 1953. Bell was the primary communications contractor for the miliitary and U.S. Government in the early days of telecommunication (hence the handle "Ma Bell"), and as such, had a LOT of experience with electronics. They also had more technical resources and educated people on hand than the military/gov't.
<snip>

Well, there is a huge differecne between singular very specific systems and computer languages accessible by users and, well, usable for anything remotely different then what it was specifically designed for - huge.
So while it might be that the "computer system" for the F-16 was originally made in the early 60s (found no references to this, but considering it apparently first entered service in 79, I find it a stretch unless the system was modified heavily), it is hardly even usable as a comparison for this when we talk (widespread) "programming language".

So, in a Fallout universe, having a functioning computer language wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

;-)
-Loki

No it wouldn't be a stretch to have it, but it would be a stretch to base it off real life languages. But that is not really the main point of what I was mentioning in my post.

Having a computer language does not take into account the breaking of Fallout rules, which were my major point, such as without a high science skill for your character, you'd be able to interact with computers given your real life knowledge and not your characters knowledge, whereas a high science skill character would not if that player had no knowledge of the language.
Thus if something along this line should be implemented and it should be within the fallout framework as we know it (who know what Bethesda does to butcher it), it simply doesn't work - lest the commands are static ones shown and all interaction with the computer is done via a list instead of typed keywords, and then the idea falls to ground as it is back to how it was in the previous games, just with more interaction.

[limitedwhole]

The problem with minigames is that it ruins the character skill as someone can jump skimp on that skill and have fast reflexes. So that skill becomes useless. Try playing dungeon lords with a thief type character. It is pointless as a mage with fancy lockpicks, a small amount of skill, and reflexes can open things just as easily as a master thief. Add in a time delay spell and their is really no need to advance your thief skills at all.

[Galaga Bee]

I think it all comes back to the debate about whether or not Fallout 3 should be more real-time or more turn-based. Real-time people like mini-games, turn-based people like to just simply apply their skill. But why can't we just have both, like in Oblivion? In Oblivion, if you wanted to pick locks yourself, you could do so. But, if you wanted to just apply your skill to it, you could also do that.

In the context of the computers, I think you could easily find a balance of having most computers in the game world being "skill-specific" and only accessible through your computer knowledge, but also having a limited set of other computers in the game world which are more puzzle/riddle oriented wherein it is the player's "metaknowledge" that solves the puzzle.

I agree that the overuse of "metaknowledge" can undermine the skill system, however I would put forward the idea that sometimes (not always) it is better to use the "metaknowledge" instead of a character skill, mainly as a means of making the interactions with computers, or lockpicking, or whatever more interesting in general, and to prevent the interaction from becoming cumbersome and tedious.

I can think of numerous examples of mini-games and puzzles/riddles that I have enjoyed in just about every RPG ever made, and I think something would be lost if these were done away with. I can also think of numerous examples of games that have come out where the entire use of a specific skill (for example computers) was tedious and boring because it wasn't fleshed out very well and didn't allow for enough creative thought on the player's part. In these instances, interactions with things like computers and locks can become nothing more than obnoxious barriers towards accessing the rest of the game's content. IMO, it's more of an issue of finding the appropriate balance between mini-games and skill use, rather than just one or the other.

[limitedwhole]

I like the idea of the visual minigame where you get info by looking under the hood. But I think the repair skill shoudl focus on getting the stuff to repair things with not just clicking the mouse quickly. Having a bag full of various tech parts would be cool. Having various tools would be cool.

[Galaga Bee]

The tools and "tech parts" are a good idea, especially if some of them would be tied in w/ your skill level. IE, you might find some sort of car part or computer part, but only be able to "identify" it or use it if your repair and/or computer skill is high enough. You could also expand this concept to include various weapons, or basically any other item in the game, depending on the item/weapon.

The trade-off here is that the more "skill-specific" the items are, the less of the game you get to experience because you won't be able to use certain items unless you play as a certain type of character. Additionally, the developers would have to be careful not to make things like a screwdriver or knife "skill-specific", as the use of these items would seem to be common knowledge for just about any type of character.

However, if it was implemented correctly, and especially if it is a "party-based" game (ie at least 1 NPC henchman, so that if the player character doesn't have a certain skill maybe the NPC would still be able to use the item), I think most players would find something like this enjoyable and rewarding, as it would reward the player for playing as different types of characters. Additionally, this type of thing would add to the game's replay value, so that you might be more inclined to replay the game as a different character type in order to use items that you weren't able to use the first time around.

I would also like to reiterate my previously stated idea that a motorcycle would be a much more practical, interesting vehicle to add into the game than a car or truck, with the exception that it doesn't really allow for more than 1 extra passenger (assuming the game is "party-based"), unless you have a sidecar. It seems to me that in a post-apocalyptic world a motorcycle would be much more useful than a car; it would be less conspicuous, easier to hide, easier to navigate past difficult obstacles (such as past abandoned cars or potholes or down narrow alleyways), easier to hop on/off of, etc. Plus, given the fact that the developers are using the Oblivion graphics engine for the game, it's not much of a stretch (graphically speaking) to make the leap from horses to bicycles/motorcycles. I guess it just seems like a natural choice to me. And while we're at it, let's make it a chopper, not a fatboy.

[Lazigothi]

I think since two people vote for motorcycle in separate threads, I'm optimistic for those. I don't see how having a motorcycle automatically limits the party to just the protagonist. I can't imagine a F2 protagonist with a full Charisma and Perk loaded pack of followers fitting in the Highwayman either. Even without a full pack, I think just getting in Marcus, or Vic, or Skynet alone would be tricky. (There was a reason why they cut scenes to get Uncle Jesse into the General Lee.) But it happens anyway for videogame magic and leap of faith in the game. So, why not have several motorcycles available? Why not utilize another type of mechanical construction? The roving HQ was a good idea. How about something that's sentient, robotic, bionic, or otherwise? Perhaps there's now a mutated horse breed out there. It would be great to have an additional video scene once "whatever-it-is" gets discovered and finally enabled for transport. There could maybe be transport tech that needs to be solved to get to the endgame location aboard some kind of mothercraft in orbit.

[Cyro]

First point - Duel Wielding!

Now that's out of the way... So far the fallout series has been mostly focused on 'city states', independent communities. It would be interesting to have different organization competing for controller, and the play could chose the organization they want to support, confederations, empires, tribal, etc. This would mean that there's a permanent change to the world, beyond the scope of the playable area impacted by the players choice.

Not to mention it's a fun way to impact political bias.

[Jeff_31]

I like the other idea of going beyond California. It could be anywhere. I love, actually, that one could choose to be the Chosen One and be any race from any country. I was thinking an ideal entryway/climax could involve either: 1) orbital platform; 2) biodome. Some place that initially wanted a managerie of all aspects of human life in an idealized yet homogenized, self-sustained environment gone horribly wrong. Maybe it was like the leftover of some crazy ultra-villain's dream for an Utopia a la Bond. Maybe you can get that ol' Shuttle to work again that's parked in San Francisco. Or, actually being able to start in any part of the globe. Maybe underwater. The vault idea can be anywhere.

+1

I'd like the action to take place in another country. In Fallout, the whole world has been affected by The Great War. I'd like to know what happened to the rest of the world; how did European, Asian, African survivors handle the crisis ? Did they build any vaults ?

[Fallout skater]

I think russia would be a great place for the game as I connect nuclear explosions to Asia-Russia. The wastelands in the game look alsmost as the uninhabited areas in Russia.
I think extending is a good idea for example enrgy weapons -plasma
-laser amd etc.
this includes making more types of weapons
and last but not least I think the game is to short I mean they should make more goals and etc.

[Blumpkin]

The different races would allow different Perk choices, that'd be awesome because stereotypes kick ass :P Should take place in europe with the random terrain to make better use of Survival when you are cruising from hellhole to hellhole.. Gotta bring slavery back though, actually making it useful and more common across the map, not just in one starting community :\ Oh, and like 100 more perks to choose from, cuz if I can go to level 50 or so I'd rather take more stuff I want rather than junk.

[Zantheus]

I was wondering if the game could include a perk / skill for Extra Sensory Perception? During the cold war, USA, Russia as well as England has some experiments concerning this. This can open up a whole new field for exploration. i.e. psychokinesis, telephathy, clairvoence or remote viewing etc... There are some discussions also about humans developing these attributes eventually as a natural path of evolution, thus a nuclear fallout could jump start this. Fallout already have ghost and zombies in various instances, why not expand on it and include werewolfs, vampires etc... it will appeal to a whole new audience

The discussion on item identification is also interesting which is sort of like the "lore" attribute on other RPG games. But different items may require different types of "lore" i.e. electronics components require high "computer" skill to identify, unique swords / melee weapons require high "melee" skill to identify and so on...