Melee Weapons Question

[Obike Fixx]

Hey

I've been through most weapons types in the game - except for Melee, don't know why.
Thus I decided that it was time to try my luck with some thorough ass kicking hand-to-hand weapons.
So far it's going ok, however I'm *VERY* bored with the super sledge which I made sure to get early on. Can it really be that the designers chose to make melee the only class that didn't get a new "best weapon" in this sequal? Or am I missing something?
I know there is a katana/wakazachi to be found around the area of San Fransisco, but is it better/cooler?

So, anyway, my question boils down to this; Is the Super Sledge Hammer the only viable option for a melee character.

Oh, and when exactly is it enemies start fleeing at the sight of you with unarmed? As I remember it, 300%... Is that correct?

[Andrey]

You can take Ripper for meele weapon. Or Super Cattle Prod,but i dont think they are strong as Super Sledge.You have Mega Power Fist with unarmed.
And there is Louisville Slugger,but I never used it since I never found it.

I like pounding heads with Crowbar

[Kipi]

Well, this is actually a matter of taste. I've inculded few things to consider when thinking of melee weapon:

1) Sledge Hammer, and especially Super Sledge Hammer, has very big range how far it will push the target. At times, this is very usefull, especially if the opponent is also using melee or unarmed fighting style, since then it's forced to use some of it's AP to reach you again. The bad thing in this is, that if the NPC decides to flee, it gains some advantage when it has already been throw quite long way already. Also, if it uses ranged weapon, then YOU are the one who has to use some AP to reach the target.

2) Super Sledge Hammer (= SSH in future) does a good deal of damage (18-37), while having good range (2). And it only takes 3 AP to use. Of course, the Super Cattle Prod (SCP in future) does more damage (12-42), but only if it does max damage, and it has shorter range (1). And, most importantly, it uses Small Energy Cells, which could be used a lso in car. And SCP takes 4 AP to use, but then, it doesn't throw opponent so far away as SSH.

3) The suldger, mentioned by Andrey, is far forse, does less damage than either of these two weapons, while having short range (1).

4) If using weak character (low strength), then it's totally new situation. SCP needs only STR 4 to use, while SSH needs 5, making SCP usefull for weaker characters. Again, IMO sludger is out of question.

I didn't include Unarmed weapons to this pondering, the reason is that the only weapon that could actually compete with SSH or SCP is Mega Power Fist, making a bit more damage than SSH but bit less than SCP, but it has range only 1, and it uses also those Small Energy Cells, so why use it when you could use SCP? Of course, Mega Power Fist only requires STR 1, but with that STR, it's almost suicide to actually fight with unarmed/melee weapons.

Hope this helps a bit

[Luis Antonio]

The good thing about melee characters is the Slayer perk. With it you skip luck rolls, and always hit criticals - therefore you can cripple enemies with one strike, kill them instantly or knock them down, which makes melee characters unstopable.

I had the same disapointment you have with the sledgehammer - I think they're good for combat but rather pointless. When you pin down an enemy on an corner with the hammer you get tons of satisfaction BUT...

I've always attempted melee players so:

Advantages on the last fight (example)

There's one of the boss parts that if hit will render him stunned.
You can use the fists/melee weapon once and then a laser weapon, stunning and delivering tons of damage.
His melee weapon is rather worst than his ranged weapon.

Advantages through the game:

ANY melee weapon will do critical damage. So, after picking up Slayer, you can just choose to whack everyone down with a crowbar, or one of those sticks that are thrown at you at the first temple. You'll have tons of trouble but you can finally kill everyone with any weapon, what doesnt happens with ranged weapons even with the sniper perk.

Also, I think it is rather cool to roleplay. A dumb character with high strenght and perception and luck and very low charisma will not be able to talk, but may take out vault city guards single handedly even before reaching slayer perk with a cattle prod.

BTW, I never seen such thing as a Super Cattle Prod, is that really in game?

For those who like to change I recomend:

- Try killing aliens with the wakisashis or the combat knife.
- Try hitting enemies ONLY in the head, going away when they get uncounscious
- Try the mega power fist. (I wonder why there's no mega power boot).
- Defeat the last enemy with the Brass Knuckles and a ranged weapon (I did it, it was hard, I tell you, when the weapon was not energy weapon).

[Kipi]

Originally Posted by Luis Antonio

The good thing about melee characters is the Slayer perk. With it you skip luck rolls, and always hit criticals - therefore you can cripple enemies with one strike, kill them instantly or knock them down, which makes melee characters unstopable.

I had the same disapointment you have with the sledgehammer - I think they're good for combat but rather pointless. When you pin down an enemy on an corner with the hammer you get tons of satisfaction BUT...

I've always attempted melee players so:

Advantages on the last fight (example)

There's one of the boss parts that if hit will render him stunned.
You can use the fists/melee weapon once and then a laser weapon, stunning and delivering tons of damage.
His melee weapon is rather worst than his ranged weapon.

Advantages through the game:

ANY melee weapon will do critical damage. So, after picking up Slayer, you can just choose to whack everyone down with a crowbar, or one of those sticks that are thrown at you at the first temple. You'll have tons of trouble but you can finally kill everyone with any weapon, what doesnt happens with ranged weapons even with the sniper perk.

Yes, that's true. But I left perks and such out when making that comparing, since it's not quaranteed that someone is willing/able to get them.
And isn't it actually quite boring to be able to kill everybody with crowbar? Of course, you mus reach the opponent first, but later in the game it's not big problem, if you Action Boy, Bonus Move and such perks and you are using good armor, ie Advanced Power Armor or Advanced Power Armor MKII.

BTW, I never seen such thing as a Super Cattle Prod, is that really in game?

As far as I remember, it's quite hard to get, but unfortunately I can remember right now how.
And if there isn't one, and I remember wrong, then we have one reason to NOT believe GB anymore, since SCP is listen in Fallout 2 -section of GB

For those who like to change I recomend:

- Try killing aliens with the wakisashis or the combat knife.
- Try hitting enemies ONLY in the head, going away when they get uncounscious
- Try the mega power fist. (I wonder why there's no mega power boot).
- Defeat the last enemy with the Brass Knuckles and a ranged weapon (I did it, it was hard, I tell you, when the weapon was not energy weapon).

Those are quite good things to try out, but I would exclude the Mega Power Fist out from that list, since it's quite close to SCP, only slightly lower damage.
But if one wants a real challenge, then try the last think, but replace the Brass Knuckles with Boxing Gloves or Plated Boxing Gloves

[Obike Fixx]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll have a look at the cattle prod.
Btw, anybody know of some specific place I can get the wakazachi (sp?)?

[Kipi]

Originally Posted by Obike Fixx

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll have a look at the cattle prod.
Btw, anybody know of some specific place I can get the wakazachi (sp?)?

This is not 100% sure, becuase I'm not posting at home, but I remember that you can get those in SF or from random encounter near it.

[Andrey]

Wakizashi Blade is easy to get.You can find it by traveling around New Reno.When you encounter yakuza fighters everyone of them has it.

Also, Super Cattle Prod can be found on Enclave and San Francisco.Maybe even in SF BOS building.

EDIT: For ultimate challenge, try beating Frankie with Spikes that Carnivores plants throw.

[Kipi]

Originally Posted by Andrey

Wakizashi Blade is easy to get.You can find it by traveling around New Reno.When you encounter yakuza fighters everyone of them has it.

Weren't you able to have those encounters near SF too??
Have to check that one when I get home...

EDIT: For ultimate challenge, try beating Frankie with Spikes that Carnivores plants throw.

But those are ranged weapons, not melee

[Andrey]

No Wakizashi encounters near SF

Ok, then how about using Rock?

[lellebror_erik]

Wakizashi Blade is found near NR, and the SCP can be gained from Al in NR(he is in the basement of New Reno Arms for those who dont know).

[Nekasrof]

Originally posted by Kipi:

"Of course, Mega Power Fist only requires STR 1, but with that STR, it's almost suicide to actually fight with unarmed/melee weapons."

I would just like to say, "Wrong." 1 strength is a perfectly viable and very valuable strategy for an unarmed fighter. I could explain why, in detail, but I won't, unless pressed farther.

Just know that 1 strength + unarmed = kill everything in fallout 2.

As for the Super Cattle Prod... I didn't know about it either, and I thought that I had brought everything to Al

P.S. If you have low intelligence, forget Al right now. I mean, go talk to him.

[Kipi]

Originally Posted by Nekasrof

Originally posted by Kipi:

"Of course, Mega Power Fist only requires STR 1, but with that STR, it's almost suicide to actually fight with unarmed/melee weapons."

I would just like to say, "Wrong." 1 strength is a perfectly viable and very valuable strategy for an unarmed fighter. I could explain why, in detail, but I won't, unless pressed farther.

Just know that 1 strength + unarmed = kill everything in fallout 2.

As for the Super Cattle Prod... I didn't know about it either, and I thought that I had brought everything to Al

P.S. If you have low intelligence, forget Al right now. I mean, go talk to him.

Actually, I would be very interested in hearing your theory about STR 1

[Nekasrof]

"Actually, I would be very interested in hearing your theory about STR 1 "

Yay!

First, we must get rid of three assumptions:

Assumption 1: The Gifted trait is the best trait ever and I love it. - Wrong! If you want your STR to be 1, forget about this trait.

Assumption 2: If my strength is 1, I won't be able to get the perk Slayer, which has a strength req of 8. Sorry, but you can get it with power armor and buffout, no need to waste perks (or valuable starting stat points)
to boost your strength.

Assumption 3: The amount of damage I deal with hand-to-hand attacks actually matters. Sorry, it really doesn't. You cripple them, you blind them, you knock them unconcious... whatever it takes. And when you get the Mega-power fist, your minimum damage will be the same as everyone elses, but high strength chars will have a few points higher on their max. What, maybe 10 or 12 points higher? Not significant, especially when you are getting critical hits all day long.


Also note: I have chosen the Traits One Hander and Skilled. One Hander adds +3 to all damage with my fists (it doesn't seem to work for comabat knives and other melee weapons), so I deal 4-6 damage, even though my damage listed is 1-3. That makes up for the melee damage I might be losing in the early game. In late game, the damage from strength does not matter at all.

I am currently play testing this model, so here is what she looks like for stats, etc. (I had a level 21 with the same build, but she was deleted when I upgraded to a new computer).

Level 16
Hit Points = 141
ST 1
PE 7
EN 10
CH 1
IN 10
AG 10
LK 3 (+2 from Hubologist)

Skills:
Unarmed = 234
Doctor = 95
Sneak = 111
Lockpick = 45
Steal = 90
Speech = 65

Damage with Mega-Power Fist = 20-41

AC = minimum of 49 with combat armor and HtH evade.

This particular build poses some challenges, but I have been able to overcome all of them so far.

I plan to put the skill points from my next 2 levels into Steal. I get 30 skill points a level, so that will boost it up to 90%. All of my skill after that will be poured into unarmed, until it is 285%. Then I will go talk to Mr. Sutton in Klamath and make it 295%, and practice at the punching bag to make it 300%. I know this is possible because I did it with my previous character.

The key strategy when fighting humans is to sneak up on them, steal their ammunition (not their weapons) and then punch the crap out of them. Going for head shots to knock them unconcious and going for eye shots to blind them and make them run away are vital manuevers.

Once you get a power-fist (many ways to do this), take it to Al, and it becomes a mega-power fist. After this, Aliens and other enemies with high armor will be a cake walk. Your huge hit points and very high AC (from HTH Evade and your massive skill) will let you hang out in combat with the best of them.

I don't plan to raise my Sneak skill any higher, but with the Sneak at 111 and Steal at 90, I can take ammo from soldiers at the enclave base without too much trouble (at least I could with my level 21 character).

I have recently cleared out the raiders at Vault 15 and the raiders that were attacking Vault City without having to reload or leave the battle.

Final note: with my luck at 1 and my skill at 234%, I get critical hits frequently. I would guess an average of 60% of the time when I aim for the eyes. Yeah, it is uncommon to hit someone twice in a row in the eyes and not get a critical, but it does happen.

[Andrey]

I didnt know that about punching bags.Where can you do that?