Melee Weapons Question

[Deadalready]

I like the Super Cattle Prod and the Louisville Slugger because unlike the Super Sledge they knock people directly to the ground rather than knock them back, the useful thing about that abilty is using action points on attacking rather than chasing an opponent around.

Additionally it makes the game a little faster, it's funny to watch a person get hit and slide around the ground for the first hundred or so times, but it gets tedious after a few random encounters.

[Nekasrof]

Andrey: there is a punching bag in the Sierra Army Depot (you get the location from the Wright family in New Reno) that you can practice at for +5% to unarmed skill. To my knowledge, thit is the only one.

[Kipi]

First, interesting character

Secondly, I will divide the quote in smaller sections, so commenting/asking is not that confusing

Originally Posted by Nekasrof

First, we must get rid of three assumptions:

Assumption 1: The Gifted trait is the best trait ever and I love it. - Wrong! If you want your STR to be 1, forget about this trait.

Well, this is rather obvious. Also there is that negative side that your skills drop dramatically when selecting this trait. So, IMO not so good choice, dependless of your character and playing style...

Assumption 2: If my strength is 1, I won't be able to get the perk Slayer, which has a strength req of 8. Sorry, but you can get it with power armor and buffout, no need to waste perks (or valuable starting stat points)
to boost your strength.

Hmmm... idea is good.
How many Buffouts you need to raise your STR to required level?
I do not know since I hardly use drugs in Fallout 2, especially Buffout since it has very high chance to make you addicted.

Assumption 3: The amount of damage I deal with hand-to-hand attacks actually matters. Sorry, it really doesn't. You cripple them, you blind them, you knock them unconcious... whatever it takes. And when you get the Mega-power fist, your minimum damage will be the same as everyone elses, but high strength chars will have a few points higher on their max. What, maybe 10 or 12 points higher? Not significant, especially when you are getting critical hits all day long.

Well, this works very well at the late game, but what about the beginning?
I will return to this topic later in my post

Also note: I have chosen the Traits One Hander and Skilled. One Hander adds +3 to all damage with my fists (it doesn't seem to work for comabat knives and other melee weapons), so I deal 4-6 damage, even though my damage listed is 1-3. That makes up for the melee damage I might be losing in the early game. In late game, the damage from strength does not matter at all.

One Hander is very good choice to your character.
The Skilled trait is a bit more problem. It is good, I do not deny that, but since you can select perks only every 4 levels instead of every 3 levels, it's not that good. Okay, you get more skill points per level, but still...
But it's more of matter of like and playing style.

Level 16
Hit Points = 141
ST 1
PE 7
EN 10
CH 1
IN 10
AG 10
LK 3 (+2 from Hubologist)

This particular build poses some challenges, but I have been able to overcome all of them so far.

I plan to put the skill points from my next 2 levels into Steal. I get 30 skill points a level, so that will boost it up to 90%. All of my skill after that will be poured into unarmed, until it is 285%. Then I will go talk to Mr. Sutton in Klamath and make it 295%, and practice at the punching bag to make it 300%. I know this is possible because I did it with my previous character.

Nothing to comment here, ood choises for stats

The key strategy when fighting humans is to sneak up on them, steal their ammunition (not their weapons) and then punch the crap out of them. Going for head shots to knock them unconcious and going for eye shots to blind them and make them run away are vital manuevers.

Okay, here lies the key, and IMO also the weakness of your strategy:
Stealing has been made very difficult in Fallout 2, especially when trying to do it to bosses or more diffcult NPCs. So, this tactic requires lots of loading, since if you don't success in stealing, you are in big trouble.

Once you get a power-fist (many ways to do this), take it to Al, and it becomes a mega-power fist. After this, Aliens and other enemies with high armor will be a cake walk. Your huge hit points and very high AC (from HTH Evade and your massive skill) will let you hang out in combat with the best of them.

I don't plan to raise my Sneak skill any higher, but with the Sneak at 111 and Steal at 90, I can take ammo from soldiers at the enclave base without too much trouble (at least I could with my level 21 character).

I have recently cleared out the raiders at Vault 15 and the raiders that were attacking Vault City without having to reload or leave the battle.

Final note: with my luck at 1 and my skill at 234%, I get critical hits frequently. I would guess an average of 60% of the time when I aim for the eyes. Yeah, it is uncommon to hit someone twice in a row in the eyes and not get a critical, but it does happen.

Okay, now I get back to the topic of early game.
First, I confess that I haven't tried this myself (I mean, unarmed char with STR 1), but your tactics seems to concentrate on late game only. What about the early game? The first level? If you are using this same tactic in that part also, then I can not honestly see how you have survived, since your tactic seems to base very much in high skills, criticals and MPF.
And, I assume that you while playing you have made some "shortcuts" and got as soon as possible to place where you get MPF, right? This works, but also makes the game "easier" since you have items you actually weren't supposed to have in that stage of game. If you haven't done it that way, but travelled to towns only when you have got their locations in map, then forget what I just said about it

[Nekasrof]

I admit that this is not a character build for the first time player. Hmmm... for example, I never take the perk Awareness because I have played the game so many times, i know roughly the max hit-points of enemies and what weapons they are using by appearence, the sound they make and the damage they deal. Also, I play with combat looks Off, so I am not even told if things are "Unwounded" or "Almost Dead." But Awareness is very, very helpful if you are a new player; I prefer not to use it.

A point of interest: Without Awareness and without Combat Looks On, the game still tells you what weapons your opponents are using when they reload their weapons. Ex: "Caravan Guard reloads H&K CAWS."

I have not been power playing. I recieved my first powerfist for around 12K from a merchant in NCR (got the location from Vault City). And sadly I am still wearing combat armor - it weighs twenty pouunds and I can only carry 50!

Yes, this build relies on having many, many skill points. With intelligence of 10 and Skilled Trait, you recieve 30 every level. Not very hard to get secondary skills to a usable 90% when you get 30 points every level.

As for the begining of the game... I did every quest that I know of, except for getting into the church in the Den (and the subsequent quests). I did not kill the slavers or take on the guards at the church because I thought I couldn't handle the combat. You do have to pick your battles in the early game. You can take on most random encounters, but... if you're opponents are packing guns, it is best to run.

Everything else went as normal. Learn about Vault City from Vic, find Modoc, get a ton of experience for very little combat in Modoc, continue on to vault city and gecko, get a ton of experience in those towns for very little combat.

As for stealing ammunition... It is not needed (I like it for the role-playing element, and I usually don't reload if I was planning on attacking the person anyway).. It is helpful, but your character should be enough of a tank that they can handle punishment.

Example: With sneak at 111% and steal at 90%, I stole the drugs and ammunition from all of the guards in the 3rd level of vault 15 and I only had to reload once. I reloaded because I got to close to Darion (their leader with a flame-thrower) and he alerted everyone before I was done.

One reload for a serious combat advantage? sure!

Last thing - if you knock an opponent on the ground or unconcious, you can spend three AP to loot their body. While you are looting in this way you can see their equiped weapons. You may take them, or, as I do, unload these weapons and take the ammo. This is almost as helpful as stealing. slightly more so because it effectively makes your opponent helpless for 3 AP, slightly less so because you can't do it before combat.

[Nekasrof]

2 buffout will work. Taking more doesn't have any effect anyway.

Buffout = +2 strength. With the +3 strength power armor and two buffout you can get Slayer.

[Even]

Seems like uv really sused out that char...First i got to say i love my powerfist..its my pride and joy...i can do more dmg to some creatures with that then with plasma, pulse, and other strong guns..for me using it only costs 2 ap..with such power for so little cost its a great idea..if u :run outta ammo, get nocked down, or heaven forbid ur gun explods

im sure there might be 1 or 2 slightly better than PF..but wot i figure is the idea of using melee is pritty much an aesthetic thing ( for me anyway ).something diferent then shooting all the time...seeing my char punch an alien for 100 always puts a smile of my face ..heh

hmmm and yes i know i said my PF came in useful for me and also that it was only an aesthetic thing..heh..meh..im not the sharpest tool in the shed, thats for sure

and that was a nice find about the punching bag..ill have to check it out

{ edit } sry bout reviving old topic..

[Kipi]

@Even
no problem with reviving old topic, it made me notice that there posts slipped past my notice

Originally Posted by Nekasrof

I admit that this is not a character build for the first time player. Hmmm... for example, I never take the perk Awareness because I have played the game so many times, i know roughly the max hit-points of enemies and what weapons they are using by appearence, the sound they make and the damage they deal. Also, I play with combat looks Off, so I am not even told if things are "Unwounded" or "Almost Dead." But Awareness is very, very helpful if you are a new player; I prefer not to use it.

Yes, the Awareness is totally worthless if you have played the game numerious times. I, for example, have very good image of every NPCs health and weapons from previous games, so spending one perk to Awareness is total waste.

On the side note, why you are playing with combat looks off?? Just interested, nothing more.

I have not been power playing. I recieved my first powerfist for around 12K from a merchant in NCR (got the location from Vault City). And sadly I am still wearing combat armor - it weighs twenty pouunds and I can only carry 50!

Second disadvantage of having STR so low
But seriously, what you really need to carry is the armour, weapon and ammos to it, plus at times some quest-related items. You can survive with those items quite well till you have got car, and then you can start packrating.

Of course, that makes a game harder since you can not have that much money since you can not trade anything to it, because you can not carry anything for trading. But, since you actually are able to get car quite early in the game, that's not a problem.

Yes, this build relies on having many, many skill points. With intelligence of 10 and Skilled Trait, you recieve 30 every level. Not very hard to get secondary skills to a usable 90% when you get 30 points every level.

Yes, that's true, but you get those extra SP in cost of perks. In your case, it is acceptable, especially since you are very experienced player and know what to take what not, but still losing perks is quite bad IMO

As for the begining of the game... I did every quest that I know of, except for getting into the church in the Den (and the subsequent quests). I did not kill the slavers or take on the guards at the church because I thought I couldn't handle the combat. You do have to pick your battles in the early game. You can take on most random encounters, but... if you're opponents are packing guns, it is best to run.

Everything else went as normal. Learn about Vault City from Vic, find Modoc, get a ton of experience for very little combat in Modoc, continue on to vault city and gecko, get a ton of experience in those towns for very little combat.

You have a point there.
Also, I think you could have been able to do that church-quest in the Den. Just let NPCs kill each other and then collect reward and free loot.

As for stealing ammunition... It is not needed (I like it for the role-playing element, and I usually don't reload if I was planning on attacking the person anyway).. It is helpful, but your character should be enough of a tank that they can handle punishment.

Example: With sneak at 111% and steal at 90%, I stole the drugs and ammunition from all of the guards in the 3rd level of vault 15 and I only had to reload once. I reloaded because I got to close to Darion (their leader with a flame-thrower) and he alerted everyone before I was done.

One reload for a serious combat advantage? sure!

Either you are lucky or I have been very unlucky.

Last thing - if you knock an opponent on the ground or unconcious, you can spend three AP to loot their body. While you are looting in this way you can see their equiped weapons. You may take them, or, as I do, unload these weapons and take the ammo. This is almost as helpful as stealing. slightly more so because it effectively makes your opponent helpless for 3 AP, slightly less so because you can't do it before combat.

Yes, that's very good strategy, but it depends very much on luck. After all, it's not so common that you actually knock out your enemies, either they flee before it or you actually kill them. But quite good strategy nevertheless, and very usefull.

[Mr. Pastorius]

one question: where is the louisville slugger located in f2? I always thought it was one of the f1 weapons that doesn't appear in f2 (like the alien blaster or that xl07...something gun)

[Malta Soron]

You can get is from Mrs. Wright if you bust up the Wright's still and ask her for a cash reward.

[Mr. Pastorius]

Originally Posted by Malta Soron

You can get is from Mrs. Wright if you bust up the Wright's still and ask her for a cash reward.

ok, thanks

EDIT: this slugger is a wicked weapon! i use it more frequently than the super sledge just because it's cooler and because of the sound you hear when you whack someone in the head with it