To be or not to be

[matthewd]

Originally Posted by DarkOmen14

I have, but most of those people have some mental illness small big what have you.So it's not really the games fault I mean it has ratings and tells you whats in the games.

I get ur point... think about it, Then we where all mental ill Once..
I have a little brother that is about 9 years old, He adors the power rangers and plays nothing else.
He goes around the garden screaming that he is summoning the Red lion from PR Wild force... People do get influence and its a real fact... It is not only a fable, So little children is a weak exsample But i hope u get the point..

Originally Posted by DesR85

I have no idea why they never considered the background of the individual before jumping to conclusions.

As i mentioned Above... Why do u think the Need for speed games always use introduction like in NFS Underground 2:

Hello My name is rachel teller and i play *** in nfs underground two
When it comes to racing make sure U only doing it on the streets of underground 2, In real drive safley and responsible and wear ur seatbelt

Why do u think that is... ?? And even so, Having a game featuring the abuse of children, pregnant wifes and family is a lack of respect to me, Keep it real in there... There are many people experiencing the same thing in real life.... I have bin there

[DesR85]

Originally Posted by matthewd

As i mentioned Above... Why do u think the Need for speed games always use introduction like in NFS Underground 2:

Hello My name is rachel teller and i play *** in nfs underground two
When it comes to racing make sure U only doing it on the streets of underground 2, In real drive safley and responsible and wear ur seatbelt

Why do u think that is... ??

I've seen this also in Need for Speed: Most Wanted too. Not spoken but written at the beginning of the game (If I recall correctly). And yes, I fully understand why the developer wrote that. It is a warning to players not to imitate what was shown in the game. Those driving techniques so dangerous that only a trained professional can pull off. You will only get yourself into serious trouble and even get killed trying to perform the stunts shown in these types of games.

Originally Posted by matthewd

And even so, Having a game featuring the abuse of children, pregnant wifes and family is a lack of respect to me, Keep it real in there... There are many people experiencing the same thing in real life.... I have bin there

I am being realistic here. I also don't like games that feature violence against children, pregnant women and families. And by the way, the individuals I mentioned in my previous post are those that commit crimes because of being influenced by a videogame. Either it is because they cannot differentiate between reality and fantasy or they knew what they were doing was wrong but still decided to do it anyway. Those people really need counseling even though they're guilty of commiting the crime. Bashing the developer or/and the publisher is, to me, pointing fingers at another party not involved in the crime.

To put it this way, how do you feel if you're blamed for a crime you did not commit? For example, Guy A lends Guy B a hammer, thinking that he is going to use it to do some woodwork. Instead, Guy B murdered someone with Guy A's hammer and was caught. Instead of suing Guy B for the murder, they (victim's party) sued Guy A instead. How does he feel?

I wish people will take responsibility for their actions. But no. Instead, they did the opposite. Pass the blame unto others. From what I've been reading in a lot of the articles, it's exactly that. They go around suing game developers and publishers instead of the guilty person. Why? Games don't make people violent. It's the people themselves that do.

Now, I've also gone through some similar experiences like imitating a videogame character's action when I was young and was laughed at for doing so. I managed to shake off that habit eventually. In addition, I did not go up till a point where I am tempted to do a horrible act upon someone I really hate. I used to have those kinds of feelings before (nowadays, I still do but I can overcome it due to past experiences), I admit, but I always try to reason with myself as to why it's impossible to do so. It's hard, yes, but I persevered.

[matthewd]

Originally Posted by DesR85

I've seen this also in Need for Speed: Most Wanted too. Not spoken but .......to perform the stunts shown in these types of games.
So they came to the cunclusion that poeple also treid to immetate that what they saw on Game or TV.
Anyhow this is still a fact where race games go out on preventing it from happening, Other games Ignore the fact that people are still independable beings ( And On NFS:MW it was josie marron That pronounced it at the beginning of the game )

I am being realistic here. I also don't like games that feature violence against children, pregnant ....... of commiting the crime. Bashing the developer or/and the publisher is, to me, pointing fingers at another party not involved in the crime.
I agree with u that a sick mind need counceling But still... Also a healthy mind immetate's... So why would u immetate a cooking program that shows how to finish a meal.... And not do the same thing with a Movie that supports Gang fights and all these things
For Exsmaple: A guy sees a bodybuilder on TV and dicedes to go to a GYM to get the same look, What is the diffrence in this time.... ( Also The Callumbine Tragic is a great exsample for it)...

To put it this way, how do you feel if you're blamed for a crime you did not commit? For.........suing Guy B for the murder, they (victim's party) sued Guy A instead. How does he feel?
Then He would probebly feel swindled, But it was naiv giving a man a hammer U know or dont know, anyway i get ur point , But for a game developer it is not entirly shure wich kind of people or going to Play the game... And here in holland... the age rating Doesnt mean JACK.

I wish people will take responsibility for their actions. But no. Instead, they did the opposite. Pass .......... person. Why? Games don't make people violent. It's the people themselves that do.
It is entirely treu, People never take responsability.. The always give the Blame away... And still What ever happens is not the foult of the gamemaker, But the player himself.
But in this time, In this world, Procusion is recuired..

Now, I've also gone through some similar experiences like imitating a videogame character's..........it due to past experiences), I admit, but I always try to reason with myself as to why it's impossible to do so. It's hard, yes, but I persevered.
Growing Up is a Great part of loosing ur act of immitating characters on Games or Tv... For so far, I dont Blame anyone except the one that needs to Be blamed, But all we need in this world is respect for one and each other.
What i Ment to say is that people do get influance ( Wicked or not ), But when a man dicides to abuse his family it is his responsibility, But what about the wife and kids.. They Become another victome of the situation

.

[Lady Dragonfly]

Originally Posted by DesR85

I wish people will take responsibility for their actions. But no. Instead, they did the opposite. Pass the blame unto others. From what I've been reading in a lot of the articles, it's exactly that. They go around suing game developers and publishers instead of the guilty person. Why? Games don't make people violent. It's the people themselves that do.

This argument is along the same lines as "guns don't kill, people do", "drink responsibly", "surgeon general warns that smoking is..." and so on.
It is difficult to argue against something so obvious that a person should assume the responsibility for his/her actions. People use ropes and kitchen knives and other common things to commit crimes and nobody would sue the manufacturer. People drink and smoke and hunt and that is fine. Most of us live in a free society.

However, at least here in USA selling a pack of cigarettes or a bottle of beer to a minor is a crime, and you can't purchase a gun legally without a background check. You can't abuse a minor or a spouse without a possible severe outcome as well. Five years ago I knew a guy who punched his pregnant step-daughter because he did not like her boyfriend. That guy is stll in prison as far as I know. This is a safeguard our society employs. The measures are far from perfect, of course.

The current videogame rating (M, R etc.) is another example of a feeble attempt to restrict "adult fun".
The problem as I understand it, and please tell me if I am wrong, is that the game rating is a total crap that begins and ends in the left lower corner of the game box. The laws and regulations are so vague and the popularity of the "game is not a culprit, you are" argument is so high that it makes almost impossible for a game developers to lose a legal battle against a few weirdoes and their attorneys.

The game industry is under constant pressure to outdo their competitors and offer something "extra" and "revolutionary" for reasons beyond the scope of this thread.
Some choose better graphics, some more graphic violence and sex; some make a clone with an "extra" features. Supply and demand thing, I suppose.
Sometimes I feel like a part of the surfeited Roman plebs in the Circus, if you know what I mean.

I don't know what Lionhead will give us to munch on in Fable2 but I can only hope that they will use more discretion in their choices.

[DesR85]

Originally Posted by Lady Dragonfly

The current videogame rating (M, R etc.) is another example of a feeble attempt to restrict "adult fun".
The problem as I understand it, and please tell me if I am wrong, is that the game rating is a total crap that begins and ends in the left lower corner of the game box. The laws and regulations are so vague and the popularity of the "game is not a culprit, you are" argument is so high that it makes almost impossible for a game developers to lose a legal battle against a few weirdoes and their attorneys.

The game ratings (ESRB, PEGI, or others) are set up in order to make users aware of the content a game contains. It is not a system meant to impose any standard on any game. I agree that they need to be more informative and detailed about the content of a game but getting rid of them is not a good idea. Without it, how can we tell which games are suitable for children and which ones are only for the older audience?

That's where they come in. And you have to be glad that almost all the videogames in stores have an ESRB or any other rating system at the front of the game box. They would be in very big trouble if almost all the games have no ratings on them. An article relating to game ratings systems can be found at FiringSquad (link). If you want to know more, I advise heading there.

P.S. Let's just drop this discussion, please. Not for my sake but for the sake of everyone here. Thank you.

[mr_sir]

Originally Posted by DesR85

P.S. Let's just drop this discussion, please. Not for my sake but for the sake of everyone here. Thank you.

I agree, this thread was started to discuss the introduction of pregnancy etc. into Fable 2. Discussion about the game rating systems (and their pros and cons) and arguments for and against the link between video games and violence would probably be best in somewhere like Speak Your Mind

Please can we get this thread back on topic. Thanks

[Lady Dragonfly]

That is the fate of any controversial topic: to sprawl and to branch out and to elicit perhaps a heated argument about morals and evils, real or imaginary.
The idea of "pregnancy" and "children" in a game like Fable is raising many questions and I don't see a problem with people discussing different aspects of the issue. That is why this thread was started.
I absolutely agree with Dragon Wench and matthewd that spouse/children abuse is unacceptable in any shape and form.
Some people disagree. Both points of view are presented in this thread and the tone is respectful, thanks Avo. I wish more people would participate, especially the younger guys who play Fable 24/7.

[DarkOmen14]

I'm one of those guys and I think it would be great to have kids so you have more responsibility for example, you go to the tavern if they have one and get drunk and come home and your kid sees you that way and possibly grows up to be a drunk.So you'd have to be careful the way you act around them.

[mr_sir]

Originally Posted by Lady Dragonfly

That is the fate of any controversial topic: to sprawl and to branch out and to elicit perhaps a heated argument about morals and evils, real or imaginary.
The idea of "pregnancy" and "children" in a game like Fable is raising many questions and I don't see a problem with people discussing different aspects of the issue. That is why this thread was started.

I have no problem with this thread discussing that. But this is not the place to discuss the validity of the game rating system and any possible connection between violence/crime and video games in general, which is the direction in which this thread was heading. Discussion about the above in relation to the threads topic is not a problem, but if you just want to discuss ways in which the game rating system should changed or how lawyers are taking legal action against game developers these days then this is not the place.

Edit: This is also not the place to discuss this. If anyone has issues with a moderating decision made by myself then take it to PMs.

[matthewd]

Anyway to go back to the root of the topic,
After doing some thinking.. Having children is having fun, As we already talked about the abusing part we know how we feel about it, However for the choice of a heroine or a hero and the childeren feature.
People should stay and remain on same level, also a heroine should have childeren.... But fighthing balverines with a pregnant belly is something unlogical and strange to get used to

[DesR85]

First off, I want to apologise for being off-topic in this thread.

Originally Posted by matthewd

People should stay and remain on same level, also a heroine should have childeren.... But fighthing balverines with a pregnant belly is something unlogical and strange to get used to

Agreed. Looks weird to see a pregnant heroine fighting. Maybe they (Lionhead) could introduce some restrictions like being confined to a town or something. Not sure of other methods but that's the best I can think of. For this kind of mechanic to work, perhaps they (Lionhead) should look to the Sims for ideas and inspiration.

[Unreality]

i would agree it would look out of place but still making the female hero stay in town for 9 months (ingame time) might be too long a 9 months later text should do

[Darth_Juro]

In my opinion if you do not have the mental capabilities to determine right from wrong you shouldn't be allowed to play video games or watch tv,movies, listen to music.

Granted there are some people out there that you know are so messed up they go out and kill someone or steal a car and say they saw it on GTA or in a movie and they got away with it why cant I?

With that being said take columbine highschool shooting.....they tried to blame manson's music for the cause of it when in reality those kids were picked on day after day for years. After years of having to endure such treatment(and I know from experience) your bound to snap one day.

Parents were worried about that game the bully because it's a game just about picking on people to survive in highschool or whatever. Yes youth can be easily brought into such situations but if you don't think your child is capable of seeing the difference between right and wrong, fiction and reality should you really be allowing said child into such a situation? that goes for adults to.

There will always be people agreeing and disagreeing to this topic, but fact remains it all depends on the persons capabilties to see what is real.

Take me for example, I've endured over 16 years of physical and mental abuse by father figures, school bullies, brothers etc...but that doesn't mean I'm going to go and stab them in the eye with a pen or staple there private parts to a piece of paper just because I saw it on tv, heard it in a song, did it in a game.

[dmcusn]

I suspect this would be handled via a cutscene. "...and so the hero started a family of her own..."

If they did allow pregant heroins to battle than miscarraiges would have to considered.

[Unreality]

what they could do is make the heroine or wife not look pregnant except have somewhere in a menu like Wife: blah blah now 5 months pregnant

not that i dont like pregnant women this could atleast people from beating up there pregnant wife or the somewhat absurd sight of a pregnant heroine killing monsters o.O