Bard Questions

[WordWizard]

So, I've played DnD PP for almost 11 years. I'd say I'm thoroughly familiar with the rules and finally adjusted to 3.5e. Out of all the experimental characters, the serious characters, active characters, retired characters, and GMing I have a question.

The most fun and continuously engaging activity, at least for me in the PP version, is the social interaction. I am the type of player that will drive a GM crazy with questions and off the wall antics so much so that we all end up in tears and sore stomach muscles. Spinning stories to gain the love of cities/peasants/potential employers about a gigantic bear that we slew...a massively gray koala bear. (Pronounce with a spot on Steve Erwin accent “Massively gray Ko Ala Beah”) The GM didn’t catch on to the Koala part while everybody else did, making it all the more hilarious.

How do the social aspects of the Bard carry over to DDO? The perform checks? The Diplomacy checks? The Bluff checks? The Social interaction checks…

Or are they stuck as a jack-of-all-trades combat monster *note sarcasm* party buffer/ranged attack/low hit point/not as good thief as a rogue/12hp meat shield?

Out of all the characters that are easily transferable Bard is by far the hardest to move from PP to DDO. It is probably my first choice if I were to play that game however.

So when you find the time to answer, I’ll be anxiously awaiting.

WW

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"I'll be back in two measures and a coda..." -Me escorting a buxom young lass to my room

"What do you mean I can't take Knowldege: Carnal?! I have Charisma 19!" -Me

[Rob-hin]

Not all quests will only be solvable by fighting.
Some or many, who knows, quests can be solved in a more peacefull manner so the bard should be good at such situations.

I'm guessing that perfor should work in cities. Perhaps NPC's will reward good performances or perhaps you can even be huired by a innkeeper. If the roleplaying is any good, PC's will also reward bards.

Not all skills like sence motive, bluff etc. will be in the game, but they are testing them and I expect a lot of this.

Also, skills will be implemented into combat, you can feint as a combat action like in the pnp game.

[Rudar Dimble]

It also depends on how you want to play. If you are there to play a kind of hack & slash game online, then you should go for the wizard or barbarian. But if you want to play online with thousands of players and have a good time and role-play, then the bard is an excellent option. I guess you can make skill checks and if the one you are talking to is a good role-player, he will act on it.
If you've played NWN on Argyle, you'll know what I mean

[WordWizard]

So if I want to RP there is a skill to, say "make a perform check". Then another PC, allowing that they are in the mood to RP, responds to what I have done accordingly? They are not forced to respond a certain way based upon my "perfom skill" in game?

I know it would be extremely difficult to translate a PP game to be a MMORPG, but this seems like Bard's might be getting the short end of the stick in terms of play styles. Jack-of-all-trades forced to specialize in a certain area... But that's only my opinion.

[Rudar Dimble]

Originally Posted by WordWizard

So if I want to RP there is a skill to, say "make a perform check". Then another PC, allowing that they are in the mood to RP, responds to what I have done accordingly? They are not forced to respond a certain way based upon my "perfom skill" in game?

I know it would be extremely difficult to translate a PP game to be a MMORPG, but this seems like Bard's might be getting the short end of the stick in terms of play styles. Jack-of-all-trades forced to specialize in a certain area... But that's only my opinion.

Well isn't that the same with normal PnP? If a NPC beats you at diplomacy, it's still upto you how to react on that....that's called role-playing. Some people are good at it, others suck. We just hope there are a lot of good role-players playing D&D Online, so the power-gamers don't spoil the fun.
On Argyle for instance, when you met a new PC, you both rolled charisma checks and then acted on their results...

[WordWizard]

If a NPC beats you at diplomacy, it's still up to you how to react on that....that's called role-playing.

In all those opposed roll checks, if an NPC beats me with bluff persay I act in regards to the rolls. If they beat me just barely (+1-5), I'm doubtful about what they are saying but I'll still believe them and play my character accordingly. If they beat me by +6-10ish I belive them but something doesn't feel right about it. and 10+ I'm swallowing it hook line and sinker.

I let the rolls sort the way things play out, and RP to match suite. How is there going to be a way to monitor how well I bluff and schmooze my way around things as a Bard? Other PCs will award XP? How will that be fair?

I'm trying not to flame or bash anything, I'm just trying to be a nit picker and focus on one class. I'm sure what ever end product comes out, it will be fantastic.

WW

[Rudar Dimble]

Originally Posted by WordWizard

I let the rolls sort the way things play out, and RP to match suite. How is there going to be a way to monitor how well I bluff and schmooze my way around things as a Bard? Other PCs will award XP? How will that be fair?

If you're a good role-player, you couldn't care less about the xp. So, again...everything depends on the kind of people that are going to play D&D Online.

[WordWizard]

I'm sure we all know from the PP game levels 1-5 are kinda dull and pretty unheroic. Battles with kobalds and avoiding low level traps in dungeons are a pain because you hit every other roll and you trigger every trap in sight resulting in you being unconscious most of the time. I do care about XP to the point of wanting to increase the capabilities of my character. I have a loud personality in life and it carries over to my DnD characters. Will I be able to bring that to DDO?

If you're a good role-player, you couldn't care less about the xp.

So pretty much a RP server will be a bunch of Level 1 characters yucking it up at the local tavern?
RP is fine and dandy but RP as a Level 1 Bard for a month will be arduous and pointless.

[Rudar Dimble]

Originally Posted by WordWizard

So pretty much a RP server will be a bunch of Level 1 characters yucking it up at the local tavern?
RP is fine and dandy but RP as a Level 1 Bard for a month will be arduous and pointless.

People who don't care about XP will still level up...it's just that they aren't out there for the XP. But since they WILL do things out of ROLE-PLAYING reasons, they will level up just as well.
It seems to me you're a bit of a power gamer. Level 1-5 are sometimes even more fun than level 14-20.

[WordWizard]

In my gaming experience I love 5-12+. The display of new skills/feats/abilities begins to branch form other classes at this point. In 1-5 you are either melee/ranged, tank/secondary, combat effective/combat ineffective. Whereas in 5-12+ you begin to become independent of each other, each with their own specialty.

I have to admit nobody has every accused me of being a power gamer and if you saw my play style you would probably follow that trend. I seem to have more fun antagonizing NPCs into ridiculous situations based on wit and provocative wording, to a point where inevitably the GM finally gets fed up and says, “Roll your initiative.”

In our Eberron setting, our group has managed irk, in one way or another, almost every main NPC. Between our warforged barbarian (veteran of the Great War) calling everybody “meatbags” and “weak fleshlings” and my deaf (yes deaf) Psion being constantly “misunderstood” we have more fun outside of combat. Which is quite painful for our hack and slash friend who just cares about kill counts and looting.

I’m looking for ways to involve that amount of confrontational social aspects that I can actually receive credit for in order to develop my character. My Bard was so flashy and socially flaunted that when it came to combat all I did was bardic music and back up spells. With synergy bonuses my level 10 bard has perform checks that are consistently in the 30s for perfom, bluff, diplomacy, sense motive, and any other social interaction skill. When it comes to sneaking up on a rock…we’re talking single digits.

Power Gamer I am not, instigator I am.

WW

[Rudar Dimble]

Originally Posted by WordWizard

I do care about XP to the point of wanting to increase the capabilities of my character.

That's why I said I thought you are kind of a power gamer. And your last post didn't change my opinion on it. May be you are not a power gamer combat wise, but you do think it's important to be powerful social wise. That's also a form of power gaming. I have created a bard once who was an incredible negotiator, but I abonded him from the game pretty soon, because I didn't liked the guy. Now I'm playing a dwarven necromancer...now he's cool to play and definately not a very powerful character.

[Rob-hin]

Originally Posted by Rudar Dimble

Well isn't that the same with normal PnP? If a NPC beats you at diplomacy, it's still upto you how to react on that....that's called role-playing. <snip>

Opposed checks will probably not be in the game.
Just like in actual pnp games, those checks don't really work that well as it can make players do things that they don't want to. More often then not, they won't do it and that's not because of bad roleplaying.

A sence motive vs a bluff will work for instance, but a diplomacy wouldn't in many cases. In pnp games as well as in online games.

[Rudar Dimble]

Originally Posted by Rob-hin

Opposed checks will probably not be in the game.
Just like in actual pnp games, those checks don't really work that well as it can make players do things that they don't want to. More often then not, they won't do it and that's not because of bad roleplaying.

Well, if you do something different with your character than you should do, because you as a player don't want to do it, then it's bad role-playing. Simple as that.

[WordWizard]

Rudar? Do you GM? If so, do you force all your players to act everything out? Have you role-played everything you have ever done in character. Some people may not want to be forced to say, “Hail master Elf! What perilous deeds hath thou performed for all to see? He who seeks to bask in thy glory of the Dark Six shall lie in panicked fear of pain and death…” you get the point. You seem a little caught up on the poor role-player label. Sure it’s DnD but you still have to make room on a server for those that have never played DnD before or those that are there to power game.

If you are caught up on my statement that I wanted to receive some type of compensation for good social interaction with people, I think we're getting caught up on a house rules grey area. I know as a GM and a player I have been awarded and awarded XP points for good social interactions and pushing of the plot line. I know that one individual cannot push the plot line in a MMO, because that would ruin the plot line for so many other people. But, how does a socially skill laden class receive credit for what they are good at? Being social with an NPC is kinda dull and would require way too much programming just to satisfy Bards. Also, it would be kinda creepy talking to an NPC all night.

I originally wanted to know how Bard's are projected as being utilized. How well are they going to transfer from PP to DDO.

WW
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"Hey I've decided since our last game, you got a new amulet...'Badge of the ***hole +3'" -GM

[Rudar Dimble]

Originally Posted by WordWizard

Rudar? Do you GM? If so, do you force all your players to act everything out? Have you role-played everything you have ever done in character. Some people may not want to be forced to say, “Hail master Elf! What perilous deeds hath thou performed for all to see? He who seeks to bask in thy glory of the Dark Six shall lie in panicked fear of pain and death…” you get the point. You seem a little caught up on the poor role-player label. Sure it’s DnD but you still have to make room on a server for those that have never played DnD before or those that are there to power game.

If you are caught up on my statement that I wanted to receive some type of compensation for good social interaction with people, I think we're getting caught up on a house rules grey area. I know as a GM and a player I have been awarded and awarded XP points for good social interactions and pushing of the plot line. I know that one individual cannot push the plot line in a MMO, because that would ruin the plot line for so many other people. But, how does a socially skill laden class receive credit for what they are good at? Being social with an NPC is kinda dull and would require way too much programming just to satisfy Bards. Also, it would be kinda creepy talking to an NPC all night.

I originally wanted to know how Bard's are projected as being utilized. How well are they going to transfer from PP to DDO.

WW

As I told in my first post: I don't know how they are going to implement social skills...I just gave an example on how they could do it.

And: yes, I've Dm-ed a lot. And yes: if players do things their characters wouldn't do based on checks they rolled I 'punish' them for it, or I encourage them to do otherwise. Off course, the way they play their character is up to them, but if they're going to roll skill checks, they have to stick to the results. Why would a player gain the advantage of a won opposed diplomacy check, but not have any disadvantages when losing them? So yes, then I do force them to act it out.