What's you biggest gripe with the D&D rules?

[GawainBS]

Hello

With which aspect of the current (or previous) ruleset are you most frustrated?
I, for one, think that DEX plays too small a roll in combat. Making efficient warriors with high STR gives me too much the feeling that they are big lumbering oafs. I know, there's Weapon Finesse, but that's only for certain weapons. Besides, it only works well with certain builds. (I am one of those people that wonder why everybody thinks they're a genius because they use Finesse... )
IMHO, it should grant (minor) boni to hit or something. I'm thinking along the lines of DEX in Arcanum, Wizardry VIII (the games with the most "realistic" stats-combat interaction), Might & Magic, Vampire P&P, etc...

So, what do you guys feel that should be different? I'm not asking about actually thinking up different rules, but just what you feel isn't "right".

[Siberys]

but just what you feel isn't "right".

Psionics.


As for the dex thing, There are several cases where dex becomes an important role in an attack, more than just weapon finesse, but would dex really apply to swinging a giant axe down on your enemy? How about a one handed hammer, or a longsword, it's not so much about precision at that point, it's about power.

Precision belongs to the smaller and/or finer weapons, like Rapiers or Whips, but bastard swords and longswords, axes, hammers, and spears aren't so much precision, they're just power.

[GawainBS]

Swords are all about precision, just like spears. Apart from that, every weapon requires a certain degree of manipulation capabilities. I'm not argueing that DEX should be the end-all, be-all of combat. Let's put it this way: two fighters, both with high STR and a twohanded axe. If one of the two has a higher DEX, it should grant him more of a bonus than Initiative (maybe) and AC (which is restricted by armour anyway). But I'll drop the topic about weaponwielding, since it would stray way beyond topic.

I, for one, am absolutly fond of Psionics. It allows greater flexibility and allows you to do things which aren't confined to spells. (I'm thinking beyond powers; also things like Psionic Focus etc.)
Why don't you like it?

[Siberys]

Originally Posted by GawainBS

I, for one, am absolutly fond of Psionics. It allows greater flexibility and allows you to do things which aren't confined to spells. (I'm thinking beyond powers; also things like Psionic Focus etc.)
Why don't you like it?

Because any beginner of psionics can make either Psion, Psy-Warrior, or Wilder incredibly broken. And that's the reason why, is because you have much less of limitations.

Psionics are the type of rules that you have to try to NOT make it broken, otherwise you're gonna be doing twice as much damage and surviving twice as long as any other party member.

[GawainBS]

Well, the assumption that Psionics are inherently broken, is based on nothing. Over at the Wizards boards, there is a whole thread listing why they are exactly finely balanced. If you want, I'll search for the thread.
If you want to see something broken or overpowered, look at the core Druid, Cleric or Wizard.
Anyway, if you don't like the flavour of Psionics, that's fine.

[Siberys]

It's not an assumption, but prior knowledge. I have about 7 characters that differ from what WoTC board members say about psionics being balanced.

People believe psionics are broken, they assume this because most psions do a lot of damage. So do wizards, but my theory isn't based on Damage or DC's for powers.

It's the book as a whole, skills and feats, classes and abilities, even some of the magic items are much more powerful than that of a standard magic item. The psionics book, not only was meant for a higher powered campaign, but the creators even SAID it was meant for this. These theories that say psionics arent broken, those theories are based upon non-broken psionic characters, and how to make them that way. But it really is easy to make a broken psionic character, and not with just powers alone.

[GawainBS]

It's just as easy to make a broken core-only Druid.
But your gripe is easily solved: don't use Psionics.
I don't like Spiked Chains, because they are implausible weapons and horribly out-of-line with the other weapons, so I don't use them.

[Siberys]

Spiked chains aren't implausible, they're used all the time quite effectively.

Ancient China: Yo-Yo's were basic blunt versions of spiked chains.
Medieval Times: Bolas's and Handle-free Flail's were spiked chains.
Kill Bill: Gogo used a spike chain on Kiddo.
Feudal Japan: Spiked Chains were a common weapon for Ninja Assassins.

They're hard to use, but they're a lot more common than you think.

[GawainBS]

Oh, seriously, Kill Bill as a reference?
Bolas have their own entry and yoyo's being a blunt version... Well, then it isn't a spiked chain anymore.
Apart from this: the weapon is out of balance with the other weapons.

[Fiberfar]

Originally Posted by GawainBS

Oh, seriously, Kill Bill as a reference?

It's as good as refering to a game

[Siberys]

Originally Posted by GawainBS

Oh, seriously, Kill Bill as a reference?

Just because the fighting is fake doesn't mean the weapons are.

[GawainBS]

It's like basing your knowledge of physics on Star Trek.
I shudder when I see how they wield katana's in Kill Bill, so I'm a little bit sceptical when someone refers to that film to point out that a spiked chain would be a feasible weapon, like represented in D&D. Am I convinced that a chain can be a weapon? Yes. Am I convinced that it is the near-godlike weapon it's depicted in the rulebooks? No.
All in all, it's a preech to balance the weapons to each other.

[Siberys]

I shudder when I see how they wield katana's in Kill Bill

Considering I've taken Kendo and Koryu as well as studied a bit into Aikido, the first kill bill is rather practical, basic, and effective in terms of Katana wielding. The second movie was a bit showy, but just as realistic in the actual martial arts fighting.

In fact, Kill Bill is one of the few martial arts movies that bases the martial arts on actual styles of fighting. Movies like The Last Samurai and House of Flying Daggers, Ultraviolet, Hero, those are the fake showy ineffective styles of martial arts.

Anyways, Spiked Chain, yeah it's broken in DND, that doesn't make it a fake sounding weapon in real life as your original point seems to have been. A lot of things are broken in DND, but can also be easily fixed to a DM's desire.

[GawainBS]

The spiked chain as superweapon is no "real life" weapon.
Secondly, Kendo = whacking someone with a shinai. It's different from wielding a blade. It's a good reference for the few blocks and stances. Striking with a blade is better referenced by Iaido. (Because doing it in Kendo would soon leave you without sparring partners.)
I wonder how they came up with the scene where they grind the edges (Gasp! Horror!) of the katanas against each other and "bind" the blades, leaning in close together. It's something that's only feasible with weapons that have true hilts, like most Western swords.
But let's get it back on topic, shall we?

Another issue I have, is the way skill ranks are capped by level. I understand the necessity for the gaming system, but it leads to some odd things: a very good craftsman in the glassblowing sector, for example, has about 10 ranks in Craft (Glassblowing). According to the rules, he would have to be an Expert (most likely) level 7. This would also imply, due to HP & BAB, that he probably can take one 3 or 4 militiamen. (Level 1 Warriors).
It can get a little awkward when your players are interacting with NPC's... I think it is because, at the core, D&D is about combat: each and every level up enhances your combat abilities. This isn't the case in some other systems.

[spartan 116]

on the topic of psionics.....
our dm was having a hard time with one of the pc psionics because she couldnt really be hurt and had a great amount of damage output

but...put them up against psion killers and they balance out well
its all what you put them up against or getting them out of their comfort area


as for the skill points...consider instead of the craftmen taking levels from the core that they take a "commoner" level which doesnt give out hp and bab but skills instead. or perhaps instead gives out a feat in said profession?

at the core DND is about combat yes, but its combat for the pcs not the entire world