Prestige Class Problems

[The Great Hairy]

@Mr.Waesel
In the "Complete X Books" thread you answered one of my questions with a comment about the Survivor & Ur Priest prestige classes - apparently if the PC goes into one of these classes, they lose the requirements for the class. Now, I'm not familiar with either of these classes, can you detail the problem? Thanks.

In general, I would enforce the ruling that if the PC loses the requirements for a prestige class, they lose all of the prestige class abilities. To me, it's the same as the Paladin or Monk requirements - a Blackguard can't continue being a Blackguard if they are no longer evil for example.

Cheers,
TGHO

[Mr.Waesel]

To enter the Ur-priest class from Book of Vile Darkness and later Complete Divine, you must either have no divine spellcasting ability or forever forsake it if you do. However, when you take Ur-priest levels, you get the ability to cast divine spells. So you no longer meet the requirements, so you lose all benefits granted by the class...

The Survivor from Savage Species works similarly, though I'd have to look up how exactly. Anyway, the gist of it is that you can only take survivor if your saves are under a current point, but the first level of survivor bumps them over that point, so you no longer meet the requirements...

Personally, I'd rather have people keep the benefits of a class when they lose the requirements than this stupidity.

[Rob-hin]

I think it takes commen sence.
Some abilities you will loose, others you have learnt and therefore you can't loose them.

Spellcasting abilities from a cleric that falls from his faith is something you will loose as it's an external factor.
A feat, like endurance, is part of you and so you can't loose it.

[jopperm2]

I don't think that the classes were written this way intentionally, f/i the Ur priest gets his divine casting from Ur Priest only IMO. Basically he's using magic in a way not like any other and it doesn't qualify to canel his Ur Priest abilitie, likewise it doesn't qualifyu him for other things that divine casting normally would. That's just how I would house rule it anyway.

[Rob-hin]

Well I'm not familiar with the UR priest, I was speaking of it generally.
But by the sound of it, taking the UR priest class requires you to intentionally drop other abilities, so it makes sence that he looses those abilities.

For the rest, I think my internal/external point holds.

[The Great Hairy]

I don't think a lot of the problems written into the DnD rulebooks were intentional, however they are certainly present, and many are only made worse by the stuttering and spluttering of the designers. <sigh> And it's left to us poor nostrilpickers to try and sort everything out!

Anyway, the Ur-Priest. I can see what the designers meant when they created this class. They basically wanted a "priest" class who either obtained their spells from some weird and unknown source, or stole them from unwilling gods. However, Mr.Waesel's point is quite a good one - the requirements for the class don't fit the class abilities. So houseruling is required - I'd personally state that the spells the Ur-Priest gets are not actually "divine" (and not arcane either) and so, do not fit into the general understanding of magic. It's certainly not a class I'd allow PCs, anyway.

With respect to the Survivor - I personally loathe Savage Species, and refuse to allow it in my games. In a situation with this, you'd have to throw out the class requirements and come up with something else, I think. What are the actual numbers we are dealing with here? What are the requirements for this class?

In general - I would rule that if a PC lost the requirements for the Prestige Class, they lose the abilities of that class. However, it would have to be taken on a class by class basis.

Cheers all,
TGHO

[Mr.Waesel]

The blackguard has power attack as one of its feat requirements. Power attack has a strength requirement.

Makes sense that a blakcguard's fiendish servant leaves him because the blackguard has been hit by a Ray of Enfeeblement? Suuure