New class!

[Grimar]

ok. i love the rouge,and i love daggers,but daggers suck! so i made my own class:dagger master.. the main consept is a rouge with no other weapon than a dagger(or 10 of them ). i made the class somthing like this:

lvl
1: Improved dagger damage,improved dagger range,dagger trick
2: two dagger fighting
3: idd,idr
4: Weapon focus dagger,uncanny dodge
5: idd,idr
6: evasion
7: idd,idr
8: improved two dagger fighting
9: idd,idr
10:improved uncanny dodge

Improved dagge damage(idd):add 1d4 dagger damage
improved dagger range(idr) :add 30 ft dagger range at first level and then 10ft each time

dagger trick: you may draw a dagger anywhere from your body as a free action

two dagger fighting:same as two weapon fighting,but only with daggers

skill points 6+int
hd:d6
base attack:moderat
saves:same as rouge
proficiensies(know i spell wrong): dagger and only the dagger
class skills:almost same as rouge

thats the 10 first lvls! so.. what do you think of it?? i tried playing with it,but then it had some changes,and it worked quite ok. the changes was none important from this one.

[jopperm2]

I tried this with thrown weapons worked well.. I would decrease the number of class skills though.. Most prestige classes have few class skills..

[Grimar]

i actually made it as a class, not a prestige class....

[Aegis]

Couple of problems. First, with the amount of Improved Dagger Damage you give, it creates an incredably unbalanced and over powerful combatant, having gained an additional 5d4 on top of the base dagger damage.

Next, Dagger Trick is essentially quick draw (allows a light weapon to equipped as a free action, or something along those lines). There is no need to create a new feat for it.

Two Dagger Fighting, and Improved Two Dagger Fighting. Same problem as above. Those feats already exist in 3.5, as two weapon fighting, and it's improved counterpart. No need to create new feats.

Next, you give the class weapon focus, and that is on top of the gradually improving damage of the daggers. Again, this adds to the class being incredably unbalanced and overpowered.

Lastly, I'm somewhat confused about the dagger range. Have you just turned a regular dagger into a throwing dagger? And if so, how come it gains a range greater then most other ranged attacks?

As for it being a straight class, no. The base classes have, and will traditionally be, what they are. Something like this, especially with how focused and powerful you're making it, should be a prestige class, and one with only 5 levels in it, if it keeps the current build arc.

Essentially, to me, it seems as though you decided to build a class that had all the benefits of the Rogue, as well as the combat prowess of the Fighter, essentially making those two classes moot, save for RPing purposes.

[Grimar]

when i am thinking about it,i agree about the high damage with daggers,but if i remove all of them after 3d4(2d4 bonus) and put in some other stuff? about that feat thing,it was just some fancy stuff(and you only gain the two weapon fighting when fighting with daggers).all daggers have a 10ft range.if i change so the max range is 50 ft?

[jopperm2]

50 ft is a really long way to throw something with any accuracy, maybe more like 30 feet.

[Grimar]

Originally Posted by jopperm2

50 ft is a really long way to throw something with any accuracy, maybe more like 30 feet.

agree. will change it to that.

[jopperm2]

You might want to restructure it so that it has rogue BAB, saves, Same type of skills (Less points than rogue and not as many skills though), armor, weapons, But for abilities how do you like this?

1> Weapon finesse, Weapon Focus
2> Quick Draw
3> + 10' Range
4> Point Blank Shot
6> Weapon Specialization
8> Precise Shot
10> + 1d4 damage
12> Two Weapon Fighting
14> Improved Critical
16> + 10' Range
18> Improved Two Weapon Fighting
19> + 1d4 Damage
20> Extra Attack

All of these applying to Dagger only..
This is assuming you want to make it a real class.. I'm thinking it would make a better prestige class though.

[Rob-hin]

Originally Posted by jopperm2

All of these applying to Dagger only..
This is assuming you want to make it a real class.. I'm thinking it would make a better prestige class though.

Ditto.
Plus it give your character something extra, something to work to before he becomes a dagger master.
A dagger master is too specialised to be a stand-alone class. A class has to be versitale, flexible.

[jopperm2]

I agree with Rob, this is not flexible enough to be a class, the only prestige class I could see him going into is Assassin.

[Mr.Waesel]

After a quick inspection, this looks to be on par with the core rogue. I'll post a full review tomorrow.

[Rob-hin]

There is a dagger throwing prestige class in The Perfect Warrior too.

Found it:

Master Thrower
(a master with
thrown
weapons)
(CWar p58)

Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Sleight of Hand: 4 ranks.
Feats: Point Blank Shot,
Precise Shot, Weapon Focus
(any thrown weapon).
Min Lvl: Ftr5, Bbn6, Pal6,
Rgr6, Brd7, Clr7, Drd7,
Mnk7, Rog7, Sor10, Wiz10.
HD: d8
Skill Points: 4
Attack: Fighter
Good Save: Ref
Weap: —
Armor: —
Class Lvls: 5
Str: Climb, Jump.
Dex: Sleight of
Hand, Tumble, Use
Rope.
Con: Concentrate.
Int: Craft.
Wis: Profession,
Spot.
Cha: Bluff, Perform.

1st: Gain Feat: Quick Draw.
Gain one of the following Thrown Weapon Tricks. The
trick can be used with any thrown weapon with which
you have taken Weapon Focus.
Deadeye Shot – The critical multiplier for the weapon
increases by 1 (i.e., a hand axe becomes x4 vs. x3).
Defensive Throw – Avoid generating Attacks of
Opportunity with your throw for 1 round by making a
Concentration check vs. DC (10 + number of
threatening opponents).
Doubletoss – As a Standard Action, throw two weapons
either at the same target or two within 30’ of each
other. Your full Strength modifier applies to the
damage of each. Normal penalties for fighting with
two weapons apply.
Palm Throw – Each attack with little thrown weapons
(i.e., daggers, shuriken, & darts) can be with two of
the weapons. Do not apply your Strength modifier to
the damage of either.
Sneaky Shot – As a Move Action just before a ranged
throw attack, make a Sleight of Hand check opposed
by your opponent’s Spot check to deny your opponent
of his/her Dexterity.
Trip Shot – On a successful thrown weapon attack, you
can make a Trip Attack in addition to the damage.
Make a Dexterity check with a +4 bonus opposed by
your the opponent’s Strength or Dexterity check
(whichever is better). Advantages such as ‘Stability’
apply. Bonus from Feat: Improved Trip do not apply.
Tumbling Toss – At any point in a Tumble move, you
may make a single thrown attack as a Standard
Action. If you make a Tumble check vs. DC 25, no
Attack of Opportunity is generated. You cannot be
wearing more than Medium armor.
Two with One Blow – You may attack two adjacent
opponents with a single throw by taking a –4 penalty
on the attack. You make a single attack roll &
compare it to each AC to determine how many
opponents were hit. Resolve damage & threatened
criticals separately.
Weak Spot – When attacking an opponent of your size or
larger, you may make a Ranged Touch Attack
(instead of a Normal Ranged Attack), though you may
not apply your Strength modifier to the damage. You
may only take this trick as a 5th level Master Thrower.

2nd: Evasion – on a Reflex save for half damage, take no
damage no a successful save. You cannot be wearing
more than Light armor. If you already have Evasion,
gain Improved Evasion (½ damage on a failed save).

Also, the Invisible blade:

Invisible Blade
(weapon
specialist who
‘feints’ and
sneak attacks
with daggers,
punching
daggers, and
kukri)
(DR303 p43)
(CWar p44)

Bluff: 8 ranks.
Sense Motive: 6 ranks.
Feats: Point Blank Shot,
Far Shot,
Weapon Focus (Dagger) –or–
Weapon Focus (Kukri) –or–
Weapon Focus (Punching
Dagger).
Must defeat an opponent of
the same toughness in single
combat armed only with
daggers, punching daggers,
or kukri.
Min Lvl: Brd6, Rog6,
Bbn13, Clr13, Drd13, Ftr13,
Mnk13, Pal13, Rgr13,
Sor13, Wiz13.

HD: d6
Skill Points: 4
Attack: Fighter
Good Save: Ref
Weap: —
Armor: —
Class Lvls: 5
Str: Climb, Jump.
Dex: Balance,
Escape Artist, Hide,
Move Silently,
Tumble.
Int: Craft.
Wis: Listen,
Profession, Sense
Motives, Spot.
Cha: Bluff, Perform.

1st: ‘Dagger’ Sneak Attack – +1d6 Sneak Attack, only
usable when wielding a Dagger, Punching Dagger, or
a Kukri.
Gain your Class level (up to your Intelligence modifier)
as a bonus to your AC when not wearing armor &
only armed with Daggers, Punching Daggers, or
Kukri.

2nd: On a successful ‘Dagger’ Sneak Attack (see above), you
may choose not do +1d6 damage in order to make
‘Bleeding Wound’, which bleeds for 1hp per round
until stopped by magical healing or a Heal check vs.
DC 15. Bleeding Wounds stacks, so an opponent
with 2 Bleeding Wounds takes 2hp per round.

[jopperm2]

I gotta get that book, those are two classes I have thought about making myself.

[Rob-hin]

Originally Posted by jopperm2

I gotta get that book, those are two classes I have thought about making myself.

Some critics say it totally sucks but I like it.
Unfortunatly it's only about fighting classes, there should be a book with all (at that moment) existing prestige classes.

[jopperm2]

I loved Complete Divine, so I have been wanting the other 2..

In order for that book to exist, WOTC would charg like $100 for it.
*cough*greedy!*cough*

I don't blame them though.. They have like the best product in the world, and we're fortunate that they share much of it with us for free..