Keeping Casters Alive

[Mycerin]

I tell you, I must not be playing my casters properly. I mean, they have sick mana and do sick damage and buff heal like champions, but during boss fights they get fried by the area effect spells and multi-character targeting spells. My tanks and ranger barely take damage and they waste the enemy np. It's getting to the point where in the beginning of a major battle, or an mob-spam fight, that I just fire off the caster powers first then I let them stay dead because it takes too much effort to keep them alive. This is after invulnerability and my tank does have provoke up, but that means nothing against the area effect--i.g. dragon breath-- or the multi-targeted spells--dark mages.

Is this just the downfall of casters? or am I doing something wrong.

[swcarter]

Originally Posted by Mycerin

Is this just the downfall of casters? or am I doing something wrong.

That's just the downfall of casters, although you can help them a little by multiclassing them and giving them points in dodge and survival.

SWC

[KillerGremal]

Also 'Fortitude' and 'Thoughness' would be alternatvies to spend some skillpoints in.

Due to the huge damage mages normally make some few percentages of life steal would surley help too. If possible combine it with faster spells not to wait too long for the life return.

[Etherial]

Originally Posted by KillerGremal

Also 'Fortitude' and 'Thoughness' would be alternatvies to spend some skillpoints in.

Due to the huge damage mages normally make some few percentages of life steal would surley help too. If possible combine it with faster spells not to wait too long for the life return.

Also, of you're relying on your spells for vampirism, make sure you use spells that hit instantly and miss rarely, IE: Grave Beam and Jolt.

This makes for fast-coming, reliably-stolen HP into their reserves for the fight. Otherwise, go for items that give lots of physical/magical resistance as well as health bonuses. Oh, and yes, Fortitude and Dodge are quite useful and do not need much in the way of deviation from your core class.

[JessicaElytis]

Originally Posted by Mycerin

-- or the multi-targeted spells--dark mages.

A note on this that many overlook. Slowing spells (Encase, Static Jolt) cause many enemy casters to "fumble" spells. This also works well on "powering up" effects, such as the Ganth's healing axe.

This is not foolproof and will not work 100% of the time, so some spells can still get through.

If you're planning to solo the mage, I highly recommend the Mythralhorn and running in Rampage mode. Just move your caster to where ever the Mythralhorn is NOT.

Casters require a lot of intelligence. Not only on the facet of the character, but also on the player. The lack of Health means you can take less hits, therefore you need to devise and react with tactics in advance, and on the spur of the moment.

Melee is pretty much a no brainer "Uhhh....I hit things.....a lot of times......and hard."

~Jessy

[Draxian]

If you have Broken World, Chant of Stone is probably your best chance for major armor and health boost. And Absorption is great for magic resist. Most important is Life Steal, as mentioned.

Oh and I know many people do, but I don't use curses with my mage, it draws all the aggro and makesthem die quicker (may be better with huge life steal). I actually make my dual-wielders cast drown to draw aggro to them instead.


Edit: I see in another thread that you do have BW expansion. Put points in that fist of stone skill (I think it's called chant of the dead? Don't have the game here to check) that adds armor and health based on your intelligence. I'll have to guess, but my lvl 94 mage has just over 700 intelligence and about 19 points in that skill, which gives me an extra (i'll have to guess here) 247 armor and 740 health or so. It's so useful that I really think it's unbalanced. My mages often have more armor than my melee characters.

[Mycerin]

Yeah, CoS works wonders. Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm almost done with Vet in DSII map, I'll redo magic user skills and tweak them a bit more I think when I play the BW map. Haha, this forum def expedited my mastery of this game!! TNX!

[Vai'Lutra]

Spellcasters will just get stomped on quite simply.

I'm playing the game with 3 half-giant fighters and a pet myrthrilhorn which shows my trust of magic lol.

[fieryeagle]

I find the game much more enjoyable when handling glass cannons, not just going up and whack however you want because you just can not die with fighters wearing godly armor or ridiculous % health steal items. As of now, I have 3 glass cannons in my Vet party. They plow through anything and everything(well except the Arena since the monsters at 7th level is 10 levels higher ) the way I wanted, brute force combined with finesse.

I don't see why combat mages should be regarded as too weak to be used. It is true that they attract the most attention due to them usually dealing the most damage and the nasty curses they cast. It is also true that they die in 1-2 hits (in Vet mode, Finala as a combat mage dies anytime I don't handle her ). Even so, their damage potential, curses and powers are just too good to discard.

Some people suggested wearing % health/mana steal items. That, I think, is not quite the good solution. Why? Getting hit means death, you just DO NOT have the time to get HP back. Don't rely on it, IMO, if possible. Only when you retreat to a safe place that you would be able to regain HP. It gets more noticable to see when you're getting into more difficult modes. Situation, if a Kurgan attacks your combat mage and you decide to stand the ground, hoping to steal HP back? I'm sure 10 out of 10, your mage would be eating dirt.

Sometimes I just have to watch my mage falling simply because 3 axes/cannon balls were flying towards her. Nothing you could do when that happens. Apart from that, if a melee mob is wanting to shed your mage's blood, have them provoked by powers/Mythrillhorn but bear in mind the radius of the powers, miss it and you have a dead character or just feel annoying. A nature mage could immobilise the lone monster with Vine or freeze/encase them with Ice spells provided you put some points into Freezing (really important if you wanna preserve your fragile boy/girl). If nothing mentioned above is at your disposal, last method is the classic "hit and run" with your party in Rampage mode so the rest could still wreck havoc on the pursuing monsters. Daring people could just slug it out: you attack, they come forward and prepare to swing/bite/slash, you retreat just out of range and repeat.

Much to talk about but I better cut it off here or it might just be an essay in a post.

[roller1234]

Its much better with nature mages. Their main spell is not only probably the most damaging spell in the game, but also disables the target, preventing them to reach the mage. Unless the mage is targeted first, which shouldnt really happen often.

Dieing from spells means lack of resists and should be easily fixed, especially for nature mages who have absorb. Taar rarely dies in my games, and recently in the arena final round she was the only one alive most of the time, just unkillable, she is.

Combat mages are good.. until lvl34. After that they are just a sad joke.

[fieryeagle]

Nature mages do not get targeted as often as combat mages because they don't use curses, they don't do much damage compared to others. Although I agree that Vine is the most damaging spell, look at how long it takes her to cast it . She could be killed before the vine comes out . Nature mages simply can't beat, for example, a Lightning mage when it comes to DPS. Combat mage still stands towering in the damage department until, your fighter or ranger gets uber equipment and has both Critical skills maxed out.

[roller1234]

I dont know. The Vine is around two, three times as damaging as combat spells. It would take alot of faster cast and area damage to even this out. Certainly possible, but then the Vine is a non elemental spell, while combat spell are resisted by nearly everyone, greatly decreasing their real damage output. Most bad in boss fights, since they are both resistant, and there is noone to deal area damage to. Im unsure where the CM wants to get all his damage to keep up with nature mage. Curses help greatly, but then like you said, its an invitation to get killed, which not only means CM is dealing zero damage for several rounds, but also means NM is dealing zero damage too, busy with healing CM. Using curses results probably in even less damage over time, than w/o heh.

[fieryeagle]

Sadly to say, Vine is single target. The only possible mass immobilizing spell I could think of is Encase with chances to freeze due to the Freezing skill (quite effective actually since casting's very fast).

Each Combat Mage build has rises and falls throughout the game which is fair enough. I have a Lightning Mage which made act 2 a breeze (especially in the Vai'Kesh forest) and I know full well that in the end I will struggle against the Qatall with their lightning immunity. Against a not-immune-to-lightning enemy though, the damage output is just crazy with Drown + Multi Spark (it helps my Ranger in using Charged Shot too).

I did mention that Cursing could gets you killed but it's all down to how well at micro-management you are. My method is to get the Mage in, cast the curses and make a run back to my group (in Waiting mode) and turn them into Rampage mode. The NM's Encase/Vine (against big/small group) would hopefully hold the mob in places for free shots. Usually around 3-5 casts of Multispark are possible until the CM has to move again (unless I run into Kurgan, which is annoying as hell with their durability and speed). My other 3 party members are Dual Wielder + Ranger + Mature Lap Dragon so it is always quick work (powers without hesitation ). It doesn't have to the CM dealing damage all the time, I switch between Decay Armor/Drown/Cripple depending on who I'm up against. Drown also turns NM into a good damage dealer (Frost Beam + a few points in Quickened Casting work best for me) since it increases both Lightning and Ice invulnerability (max %55 more, it's no laugh).

[roller1234]

Oh i see it as an advantage actually. Talking about DPS its the same damage (100%damage@1target or 50%damage@2targets is equal), less aggro, boss killer, strategically taking out specific targets, huge hold time. I agree, it does not possess a reliable stopping power vs a horde of enemies. Doesnt need to, with other party members around. Its more like a sniper rifle compared to a shotgun. Different in use, still both deadly weapons.

Your way of playing sounds familiar, i recall doing similar things during the ride with Finala through veteran. Personally controlling the CM was the only way of keeping her alive. Needless to say that was not very impressive.


[q](max %55 more, it's no laugh).[/q]
It doesnt matter really w/o considering enemy's resistances, and raw spell damage. And after that the vine comes back ahead in terms of DPS.

[Vai'Lutra]

Don't make the mistake I did of thinking the "Hold Ground" party order would hold them off