Keeping Casters Alive

[fieryeagle]

I was very frustrated by party moving in "Hold Ground" mode too. What you would need is the "Wait" command, which wasn't hotkeyed by default so you need to assign one for that .

Originally Posted by roller1234

Your way of playing sounds familiar, i recall doing similar things during the ride with Finala through veteran. Personally controlling the CM was the only way of keeping her alive. Needless to say that was not very impressive.


[q](max %55 more, it's no laugh).[/q]
It doesnt matter really w/o considering enemy's resistances, and raw spell damage. And after that the vine comes back ahead in terms of DPS.

Yes, CM running around could look unimpressive. But would you rather do that or constantly bring her back to life ? Though she maybe dealing 0 damage when an enemy with immunity appears but could still cast those awesome Curses. They together with Chants helped me win impossible battles. E.g. Steal magic + (Greater) Chant of Magic Awareness = harmless enemy spellcasters, even bosses. Without that, I could never beat Arinth or clear the Arena at lvl 53.

Why does it not matter?
-55% in both Lightning and Ice resistance meaning Ice Mage does pretty good dmg on occasional Lightning immunity foes. I can't say that Vine would be superior in dmg because in order to achieve that you would need, maybe >10 points in Quickened Casting and it is a huge waste at intermediate level. My NM has a few points in Quickened Casting but not too many. I meant for her to be a jack-of-all-trades Ice Mage due to the versatility of skills. She can do good damage, can stop enemies on their track, can heal the constantly endangered CM and can cast Invulnerability. Summoning seems really unreliable to me due to the fact that you cannot control the creature and it does not attract aggro, saved Provoke. When Aether Blast is being filled, damage output is just so low that I can't stand it. I wanted full offense with durability, not a glass cannon or slow cooking.

[roller1234]

Well speaking about defence. A Nature mage dedicated to defence has all means to be unkillable. Lets see lvl30 Summon Bond 73% damage reduction. lvl30 Absorption 85% absorb. A naked nature mage has then incredible

73%!! melee and ranged resistance
96%!!! fire/lightning/ice/death/non-elemental resistances.

Tank fighters turn green from envy.

The Vine only needs one skill to be on full power, contrary to the elemental damage types like fire or ice, which need three. Means you can be virtually unkillable, and still have enough points for dealing sick damage. Invulnerability lvl1 only needs 1 point in embrace. Means such a mage also gets an additional 6sec godmode ability as if it was not enough.

I mean NM and CM are two different leagues. Not that i like this "balance", but CM has to do at least twice the damage of NM, to be worth comparable, because thats practically the only thing a combat mage can to. No defence, no life, attracts aggro. As for now, where a nature mage even outdamages him often its really a no question.

In fact, looking at the big brother, Diablo2, lighting sorcs are doing up to 10 times as much damage(100K) as comparable characters, and still arent the best damage dealers(like hammerdins with 10K).

fieryeagle

But would you rather do that or constantly bring her back to life

I would( and i did) kick the combat mage out of party and take another NM, which is Deru and Taar. Two NMs healing/ressurecting each other and everyone else is just amazing. Deru is skilled in summoning, has 50% melee resistance and 80%+ elemental thanks to summon bond. Taar is skilled in absorption/ inv lvl3, which later will allow them both to go for INT only gear, for really sick Vine damage. Aether Blast lvl1 deals same damage as lvl3 brutal attack from the 2H-fighter currently in my game, and that to each monster unlike the fighter. Cant wait for lvl3. It is an extremely powerful party combination, yet too requires a tactical thinking since it is needed to attack specific targets, turn on powers at the right moment and retreats. And way less micromanaging( ie fighting with the interface)

[fieryeagle]

Was it a bug or not, I'm not sure but why did the Vai'kesh Seer receive no damage when I triggered Aether Blast? Other than that, it's truly so damaging that it seems unbalanced. 2 Summoners walking around = instant crowd clearing (with Powers ready, mind you ).

About a NM with maxed Summon Bond and Absorption being better at defense then tank, I agree. Even so, it seems unnecessary to me that the NM needs that much defense. It is either the Shield Fighter or the Summon doing the tanking. I put points in Summon Bond and Absorption just so my NM doesn't die in 1 hit, like the CM (and possibly doesn't need mana potions at all). I can't agree with you about CM being only good at dealing damage. Curses has their own respective uses too and the CM without Curses isn't used to the fullest potential. Throughout the acts, there would be easy and difficult times for a specialised CM but she essentially has her uses. The fact that she attracts aggro is an advantage actually because you could use that Provoke for an Aether Blast or Whirling Strike. I think I've gotten pretty adept with manually casting Curses now , so much less dying compared to the beginning.

When I wrote "unreliable", I meant the lack of control you have on the Summon. Heck, there were many times my group were surrounded by a mob, perfect for an Aether Blast but the Summon was busy fighting at a distances because it saw that single enemy before the mob . Provoke woud be really wasteful so I had to drag the whole party to the Summon's location.

You know what's the safest way of playing? One point in Embrace for each non-NM party member . If I include Lap Dragon in the party, I could go without a scratch, on equal footings (definitely not working with a huge level gap).

[Draxian]

I know most of you don't play online (and may not have BW), so my advice might not be as valid. When playing online my rule is to make my character self-sufficient. If you think mages are weak then you aren't building them right or don't have good gear. (save up those baubles) Most of your skill points will come from your gear and then you'll have more points to spread around.

At the beginning of the game when they say don't train in other classes and stick with only one, that's not really true, especially in BW. Do more cross-training. Any archer, assassin, combat, nature mages would benefit from having some nature, combat and melee levels, and heals with master healing hands skill.

If you have the best gear and 12 or 15 points in chant of stone, your lvl 100 mage will have like 800+ armor.

Nature mages should get quickened casting combat skill (about 20 to 22% or so, eventually) to increase cast speed, faster heals, faster freezing, more dmg, 'faster vines'.

Cold snap with 22% faster cast and 33% chance to freeze can immobilize nearly everything in a radius. If it's frozen, it can't hurt anyone.

A combat mage with master healing hands and lvl 45 nature, with lvl3 heal, can heal over half as good as a nature mage, add chant of stone for 600 to 800 armor, some absorption for magic resist, natural bond, and lightning blast with arcing, add that combat buff spell for another 30% armor, and you're nearly unstoppable. Can even solo, most of the time.

And life steal on combat (lightning) mage is a must. When you're dealing 2000 dmg to one target and another 500 to several more targets with every arc, don't tell me that won't regen massive life. That's another reason you have lvls in nature, to use life embrace/wrath of magic (that would be when soloing).

So, archer, assassin, combat, nature, mage = 17 melee, 45 nature (eventually), and whatever it takes for quickened casting if you're a mage, lvl 24 combat, I think. It takes almost no time to get those extra levels if you fight against mobs around your "character level" - your character will only be 2 or 3 "character levels" behind, and the benefits are huge. Happy hunting!

+superchunky

[Thing]

Interesting to see how different people use their mages differently. Here's my approach for what it's worth

1) As a start, load up your Melee fighter with as many items you can to improve finding magic items - reserve anything that significantly increases Mana, Intelligence or Armour - why melee? - he can take more damage and still help you to get magic drops

2) As quickly as possible, build up 2 kits for each Mage - one defensive and one offensive (Robes, staffs, gloves, boots, rings, amulets). My Taar goes from 137 Armour (offensive mode) to 265 (defensive mode) and 1,500 Mana (defensive) to 2,606 (offensive) - offensive also carries extra skill levels due to the kit enhancements

3) Depending on the situation, switch kits. Being defensive may reduce your attacking capacity, but you can take the hits with less damage.

4) Accelerate the Icicle Blast power, and back it up with faster power recovery and reduced mana usage - THEN build up healing skills

5) Bring all your other parter members along in their use of Nature spells - you can quickly move up the levels by having everyone with a summons wrath or healing spell in autocast. If you get a bit ahead of the comptetion in terms of levels, give your melee and ranger a work out with the highest level nature spells they can take - this moves them on quickly so they all have an autonomous resurrect capability (not scrolls), and better summoned beasts

5) For the Combat Mage, I focus on Detonation as a power - build up the recharge capabilty via the skills tree. Pay attention to the resistance/healing/ weakness characteristics of the opposition, pause and switch spells regularly.

My mages rarely die now - the last I can recall was the final round of the Amanlu Arena in BW with all the dwarf ballistas - Greater Resurrection brought the mage back quickly and it was over in 45 seconds

PS - the dual kit approach is also useful for other classes - when my melee fighter is just "cruising", he's there to get magic drops; when the going gets tough his armour value doubles and he deals out 175% more damage

[malynch]

with keeping my mages alive.

First, I purchased the DS2 Deluxe Edition which comes with the BW expansion and I play with BW expansion which gives me 2 extra autocast spell slots.

Also, I used a mod so that I can have 6 members in my party in merc level.

My party is made up of 2 fighters (1 sword & shield and 1 duel-wield (had a 2H fighter but replaced him with DWing Eva)), 1 Ranger, 1 Blood Assassin, 1 CM and 1 NM. My NM is setup as a total healer, her only offense is through the summons. She has Heal, Healing Rain and Spirit Embrace in the autocast slots. Her main "attact" spell is Resurect and she cast Wrath of the Bear on the Fighters and Aquatic Embrace on the Mages.

The only time my CM has died is when unexpectantly ran into a lvl 45 Undead Azunite Archer right before I fought the Dark Wizard to free Eva. After I realized what I was dealing with I started hitting it with powers and made it through with all 6 of my characters at mostly full health.

Actually, I have more trouble keeping my Ranger (Vix) alive than either of my mages.

[Draxian]

Thing, I agree completely about your #1.

But, yeah, I didn't mean to sound so pushy in my post. (must have learned that from the rude people on WoW)

There are many ways to build, and many different factors such as playing solo w/ large party or playing w/ only 2 or 1 char. Or singleplayer or multiplayer, so it all depends. I'm just trying to help anyone with what i've learned. And I still learn more ways to do things constantly.

But if you play online with only one or two characters instead of 6, your guys (or gals) should be tough and versatile. If playing singleplayer with 6 party members, you can afford to be more specialized.

So make one, and join us online!

[DarkDain]

Casters in a party, function in a party, and are usually built to be that much more frail, while if you solo with a caster you'll learn how to keep them alive better, and come out stronger. Combat Mages are in no way frail at all, when I played online my combat mage out tanked warriors. Before BW, in DS2, i'd do Zaramoth Horn runs on elite, I was so powerful that i was literally healed in mana and health when a monster attacked me with any magic, and melee attacks bounced off. BW did do some crushing blows to CM with gear adjustments, but with new items to find and skills to use I think it worked out for the best. Never really had a problem with any boss doing too much, except the first BW bosses with their death ring, only time i had to run, and last time i played, i think i can survive even that triple attack. I havnt played in forever but i think i had 800'sh armor (1200+ with corpse shield), 2200'ish HP (without earthen) and 60% overall resistances (without buff) i think 60-70% for melee and ranged resistances. I dont think it hurt my damage too much either, 9000 on grasping vine isnt alot considering how SLOW it is, skull spray deals 2-4k per skull and shoots 3 of them, at a faster rate, so deal way more dmg up close especially on a weakened character. And whats wrong with using debuffs? Death mage is tank yo, i could wade through mobs killing them with ONLY drown or that rot one that makes them vulnerable to death magic. The HP i'd steal alone would make me unkillable among them. Embers too probably out DPS grasping vine, im not a fire mage but even mine do 1200-1400 each plus burning damage and a small AoE.

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