Point and CLick or 3D?

[Piff]

Originally Posted by Kipi

I'm sorry Razimus, but I must agree with the above.
As for the 3D or Point&Click, can anyone mention any "good" games made recently which is not 3D but Point&Click?? I can not think any, and as I said before, it seems to be trend today that everything must be 3D: RPGs, RTS, Adventures...

I'll add a few more:

NWN: THough not new it still was a good point and click game
Rome Total War: Very Point and click style

Cant remember anymore at this moment so i'll leave it at that.

[Kipi]

Originally Posted by Piff

I'll add a few more:

NWN: THough not new it still was a good point and click game

There are IMO two problems with NwN in this discussion:
1) It has been around some time now, and thus can we count it as "new game" in this discussion?
2) I would still put it under 3D gategory, since you can freely rotate the camera around character, zoom in and out freely and so on...

Rome Total War: Very Point and click style

That's true, but it's also from different genre
I was talking about RPGs, not RTSs
sorry if I didn't make it clear enough

[moltovir]

Why should there be a difference between 3D and point and click? Games like Dungeon Siege or NwN are both point and click and 3D, so I don't understand what this whole discussion is about. Why should it be impossible for a 3D game to use the point and click concept? As for the 2D vs 3D discussion, I'm definitely pro 3D. Making D3 in 2D would be like making another expansion for D2, which is not what I'm waiting for (can you still follow me on the abbreviations? )

[Vhan Tiegros]

I would like to see 3D. World is just more interactive that way. However, the catch would probably be crappy summons. They'd need to write awesome summon AI for me to enjoy 3D to the max. 2D summons are easy to make effective, but a lot of 3D games fail to make them well. Dungeon Lords did an awesome job with their summons, I just wish they moved faster. At anyrate... 3D would be fun. I like the look, the increased involvement, and all the possible things they could do with the plot to get you really immersed in the 3D world.

[tombc]

Look at how Starcraft II's new graphics theme has been tainted by the blocky, cartoon-style WoW and runescape reminiscent appearance of an MMO. It's my fear that with the release of a three dimensional Diablo III world we will again be subjected to this awful scheme.

Not only would the dark, brooding and evil ambience of the first two titles be lost in such a decision, but also the series' originality and uniqueness. Those scary as **** monsters, bosses, maps shrouded in seeping corruption and decay would be transformed instantly into a laughable matter. The one outstanding aspect of the first two titles for me was the pure atmosphere it enveloped the player whithin, excercising this darkness in nearly every aspect of the visuals. I mean, seriously people, do you want to see those crowds of monsters all disjsunctively hobbling towards you in what appears to be a dark mass of runescape characters? No thanks Blizzard, both atmospheric and gameplay properties would be lost in seconds.

I'm no expert on the technicality of three dimensional graphics, but surely with the introduction of three dimensions to the game we would lose the original semi-procedurally generated maps? If the diablo universe were to become a set, 3D landscape (again, instantly destroying atmospherics) it would be simply another WoW, just a little darker perhaps.

The maps and their clever disposition in the previous two titles were another great aspect I enjoyed to the full, not knowing where leads where, and to what and how. Three dimensions would deny this explorative aspect of the gameplay, and once again ruin the ambience of the game, placing the player in a position where he/she is comfortably aware of his surroundings and surrounding enemies' positions. Diablo and Diablo II were scary in the sense that you never knew what was coming your way on a fresh map, again adding to the ambience of mystery and darkness that shrouded the two titles.

Playing WoW for me is an absolute bore for more reasons than just it's poor appearance. I truly despise the 'click to attack' functionality of gameplay. It lacks any sort of involvment and action, and considerably takes away from the controllability of the attack and it's dynamic possibilites of its own disposal. If Diablo III were to be released in any such a fashion, I would certainly throw myself off a cliff. Hack and slash fits alongside those hoardes of approaching monsters in perfect unison. It's fiendish frequency allows the player more realism, in the sense that he is hacking and slashing away at each enemy innacurately and choosably. After all, in reality would this not be the case? Three dimensions, again would destroy the game's charm. Hack and slash in 3D would be purely a hellgate: london scenario, just another action game. Well **** that. I'm not going to accept the tacky layout and functionality of any such a form of gameplay, and I repeat once more my possible intentions of throwing myself off a cliff (or into blizzard HQ with great force) if this were to be the case.

Blizzard have a lot to live up to, especially since the first two titles have been so highly acclaimed (some, myself amongst them, stating Diablo II the greatest video game of all time) and that the new team probably lacks the genius and extraordinary imagination of the original development team. I reckon they can better this, and release an absolute gem of a game. I just hope they don't have intentions of acheiving this cheaply via more 'modern' aspects of gameplay, such as three dimensional visuals. After all, Diablo III shouldn't just be another 3D Action-RPG should it? Blizz are better than that

[Loki[D.d.G]]

3D gets my vote. Especially if it stays true to its roots of a hack and slash game.

[BluePaintCult]

Think of it this way....

Diablo 1 came out and it was great.

Diablo 2 / LOD was a much better version of D1.

Wouldn't you think Diablo 3 would simply be a much better version of its predecessors?

Diablo is Diablo. In D3, the roots of D1 and D2 will remain in place, and a fuller shrub will have grown on top.

[Siberys]

Originally Posted by BluePaintCult

Think of it this way....

Diablo 1 came out and it was great.

Diablo 2 / LOD was a much better version of D1.

Wouldn't you think Diablo 3 would simply be a much better version of its predecessors?

Diablo is Diablo. In D3, the roots of D1 and D2 will remain in place, and a fuller shrub will have grown on top.

Counter example, Gothic one was alright, Gothic 2 was a little better, Gothic 3 sucked. Elder Scrolls Arena was great, Elder Scrolls Daggerfall was great, Morrowind was Great, oblivion sucked.

Just because it has the name diablo 3 doesn't mean it's gonna be a good game. If blizzard or flagship studios makes it, they can make it crappy.

[BluePaintCult]

Originally Posted by Siberys

Counter example, Gothic one was alright, Gothic 2 was a little better, Gothic 3 sucked. Elder Scrolls Arena was great, Elder Scrolls Daggerfall was great, Morrowind was Great, oblivion sucked.

Just because it has the name diablo 3 doesn't mean it's gonna be a good game. If blizzard or flagship studios makes it, they can make it crappy.

First of all, the only Elder Scrolls I've played is Oblivion on 360 (which I'm currently playing again with my second hero, a mage,) and I think it's pretty damn good minus all the glitches and freezing I encounter... If you say the other games in the series are even better, I can't imagine what I'm missing out on.

Secondly, I've always been a Blizzard fan, from Warcraft 2 & 3/ Frozen Throne, along with Starcraft and Brood War as well as Diablo 1, 2, and LOD.

They've never failed to entertain so I have high hopes for a Diablo 3.

I think if they can buffer up their lackluster trademark Diablo story line as well as improve the combat engine / character personalization, they'll have another good seller.

The fact that Starcraft 2 isn't even out yet (and the fact that Ghost never even came out....... or did it?) leads me to believe that if there IS a Diablo 3 on the horizons, we will be waiting another year or two for it which means the game will only be that much more technologically advanced, and hopefully that much more of a quality product.


In my opinion, Blizzard is one of the most innovative game companies when it comes to the PC game world, and it seems that all of their sequels and expansions generally enhance the originals very nicely, therefore I pose the question:

Why would they make a Diablo 3 if they didn't think they could do it in a way that would completely blow Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 off the map?

[Siberys]

Why would they make a Diablo 3 if they didn't think they could do it in a way that would completely blow Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 off the map?

They'd do it for the same reason Bethesda created elder scrolls 4 and claimed that it completely blew morrowind and daggerfall off the map. Oblivion is awful, by far one of the worst games of Y2K I've ever played. The mere fact that it takes over a gig and a half of custom player mods to make the game enjoyable is one of the reasons that I refuse to play it anymore.

Cliche dialog, hyped up graphics as the main detail of the game even though graphics are never important, a rather idiotic run back and forth main storyline, the whole idea that even though you were a prisoner at the beginning of the game, everybody who is on your side "strangely trusts you" for no apparent reason, a speechcraft annoying mini-game, promised features that never made it to the game (such as guilds looking for you based on what they see in your potential), NPC interaction stupidity, and so forth.

My point is, is that just because game 1 and game 2 are great doesn't mean that game 3 is gonna be even better. We'll just have to wait and see.

In any case, lets get back on topic, this thread is about whether it should be 3D or birds eye.

[BluePaintCult]

Touche, I've only had Oblivion (for Xbox 360) for about a month now but you do make some good points about its quality. I mean, the first time I played the game was really fun considering I was playing an Imperial Warrior Knight.

Then again, it's the first time I've ever played anything like it, which is probably why I enjoyed it so much. However, when it comes down to it, the game is far too easy even with a melee only character. My new level 6 mage has been killing things in 1-2 fireballs since he was level 1... and ran through the entire Arena Gladiator quest in one sitting without taking more than one or two hits in every matchup.

*~*~*~*~*

As for Diablo 3, I think the whole point and click feature of D1 and D2 made it seem less realistic because of the fact that one hero could essentially run through an entire army of enemies against all logical odds by simply click click clicking away at them until they were dead.

I think that a 3D platform would result in less monsters, more challenge, and more realism. Not to mention better graphics.

But then again, a 3D platform just wouldn't be Diablo.

[tombc]

less monsters, more challenge, and more realism. Not to mention better graphics.

I'm guessing yeah, it would be more of a challenge. But Diablo with.. less monsters?? You've got to be taking the piss :P

[Loki[D.d.G]]

Originally Posted by Siberys

Counter example, Gothic one was alright, Gothic 2 was a little better, Gothic 3 sucked. Elder Scrolls Arena was great, Elder Scrolls Daggerfall was great, Morrowind was Great, oblivion sucked.

Just because it has the name diablo 3 doesn't mean it's gonna be a good game. If blizzard or flagship studios makes it, they can make it crappy.

It all depends on out preferences. Whilst someone might love a game, others might look at that same game with scorn. I'm sure Oblivion would have something to say about your criticism.

[dabragan]

Originally Posted by FireLighter

I think it will be Point and Click as anything else just isnt diablo as mentioned above.

Although Im not so sure they will make it as Im still waiting for a starcraft 2

starcraft 2 looks so freaking sick..

and yeah... they turned warcraft into a rpg with 3D.. and it dosnt look that great.. no offence blizzard but it looked way to cartoonish

so i think that point and click would be awsome.

[Siberys]

Guys lets stay on topic, this isn't about Warcraft or Starcraft. Comparing is fine but it's also on the verge of off topic discussions.