thief in battle (spoilerish?)

Celacena · #1 (**permalink**) 08-30-2007, 04:16 AM

my multiclass f/m/t is an unusual RP for me - disappointing in the degree to which the mage parts compare to Imoen, Edwin or Nalia, but interesting all the same.

the following may be a bit spoilerish and involves a schizophrenic end-boss

I had a battle with a certain end-boss that has a draconian attitude, shall I say - very "lairy". without a druid to blind the bad guy with "nature's beauty", I had to find a way to overcome the behemoth. Having dealt with a few straying minions, there was nobody between the party and Mr Bad. I laid a few spike traps and symbols and pocket planed to rest - not that it was really necessary, but I wanted to be at full strength. I then returned and confronted Mr Angry who got zapped by the traps etc. of course, that is far from the end of the story and Mr Very Angry thus appeared and started to give the party a tonking.

I still had a load of spike traps available to my PC (and so did Haedalis - he has up to 7!!) and I had my character run away from the melee - I had to deal with a couple of minions, but dual-wielding the improved Aggy's sword, Blackrazor and the Axe of the Particularly Unyielding, a few rounds of combat finished those guys. that left me free to set up another set of spike traps out of sight of the enemy. the party were not looking very well, but had not been killed off, so I had them run towards me - they each have movement rate enhancing items - still taking damage they disengaged and ran for cover.
the second round of spike traps did what Saverok wielding the silver sword couldn't - finish off Megamonster.

I've not played high level thieves and Yoshimo has rarely got to the level of one spike trap, but they make the thief character an interesting build and give it a bit of raw power that they lack compared to most other classes. I first had the idea of getting beyond sight-range when fighting (in Saradush?) the multi-transforming statues - I managed to lay one or two traps on statues that hadn't transformed and that made that very tough battle a bit easier.

the spike traps are a bit like mages with chain contingency - set up correctly, they can overcome a tough end boss - which is why it is almost never possible to avoid dialogue with end bosses. OK so it is difficult to set up an overkill trap-set, but it isn't impossible, providing you can run away and there are not enough minions to keep you in sight. I'm wondering if that will help me in the final battle - the arena is big enough to use the tactic and Edwin with WISH after a potion of insight can renew the ability to lay traps. with 14 or more available per wish (unlimited if you use simulcra + scroll) it should be eminently do-able.

If I were to use the trick with a time-stop scroll - the character could get away each time...

Having played BG and ToB for some years on and off, it is interesting to come across new tactics for some of these battles. I know that some players may consider it "cheesy", but I am not using an 'exploit', merely an ability that my PC has earned - I have not even just taken spikes as my HLA, I have UAI, a few assassinations, other traps and alchemy. with being a multiclass, I am getting a fair number of level-ups and HLAs, which makes up for lacking the power in any indivuidual class. saying that, a multiclass thief seems to get to max-out there thieving and gets the benefit of magery and better fighting stats. it has taken a darn long time to get a level 8 spell avaliable and the PC may never get a level 9, but if you take the magery as a nice adjunct to the thief class, rather than expecting some kind of equality of power between the classes, it is pretty pleasing.

the PC uses the improved chain mail that allows casting and thief skills - it is only AC 0 or thereabouts, but as the best armour is only something like AC-2, that is not bad. the bardic necklace with 3 to AC and bonus in thief skills makes AC -3 before DEX, rings and cloaks come into the equation. the PC usually operates at around -10/-11 and can use weapons in backstab that are +4 to +6. It is a pretty powerful build.

assassination is in the same league as a blade's spin or fighter's whirlwind attack, but multiple spikes must be one of the most devastating offensive powers in the game.

if I get to level 9 spells - black blade of disaster on a backstab appeals...

anyhow - all that may be well tried by other players, but I thought it was worth sharing as I have not gone down that route before, despite years of playing.

multiclass thief, gets the big thumbs up!

Thrifalas · #2 (**permalink**) 08-30-2007, 10:44 AM

Assassination is way better than GWW and the likes, that's because it's only supposed to be pickable once. Taking it multiple time is nothing short of extreme cheese.

Otherwise, traps are extremely powerful, UAI is insane when it comes to making overpowered characters (F/T with 100% MR without Carso, booyah.), and some spells like Mislead are just insaaane for multiclassed thieves. I don't think I've ever used a non-dual/multiclassed thief, but lots of dual/multiclassed. ^^

But hey, what happened with the max amount of traps? Isn't it 5 or something?

Crenshinibon · #3 (**permalink**) 08-30-2007, 06:42 PM

I believe it's five traps. I have soloed the entire game with a thief, a bounty hunter and an assassin. All of them pure.

Assassination is a nice ability but I didn't really find it too useful. Well, only if I needed to get out of a tight situation. I used traps a good ammount but the first form I disposed of with backstabs. The second was killed by traps. You can set them if you can't see him. I find Time Traps useful too because you can squeeze in an extra backstab or run out of their line of sight and set a few traps.

Also, BBD on a backstab? Why would you do that when you have the Iron Golem? That form has the most damaging weapon in the game. The armor that grants the most AC and still lets you retain your thief abilities is the White Dragon Scale found in the maze of the third level of Watcher's Keep. I believe it's AC is better than that of Shurplak's Plate. I ALWAYS used a single weapon and a shield as dual wielding increased and already high AC bonus.

Celacena · #4 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007, 05:09 AM

with previous high level characters, during time stop, I've usually only morphed into the mindflayer, as a few hits reduces INT to zero.

I presume the Iron golem has a massive natural damage.

There does not seem to be a limit to the number of spikes one can have as a multi - I now have 8 available, plus 2 times, 1 exploding and a few of the little ones. It is possible to lay about 7 traps in an area - and it may even be 8.
I also have 4 assassinations to use.

the multi-class has lots of level ups after HLAs start appearing and the irony is that once you qualify for HLA in one class, you seem to get them whichever class you go up in. thinking about it - I cannot recall having obtained a single mage HLA yet - and I am now at the final battle of ToB, so the opportunity for 300k or more points to raise the mage level appears limited.

I'll note the white dragon-scale situation - I have been using the enhanced chain, as it permits casting, but if I drop magery - which I may well do next time, I'd use that. Sarevok has the use of that armour this time.

VonDondu · #5 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celacena

I presume the Iron golem has a massive natural damage.

Yes. The iron golem's fist is considered a +4 weapon, and it does 4d10+12 damage (including the bonus for Strength 24). If you're playing a Mage/Thief, you can hide in shadows and backstab while in golem form and do well over 100 points per hit with a 5x multiplier.

The iron golem form also has a lot of resistances. There is one disadvantage, though: the iron golem cannot move through narrow passageways and doors, so you can't use it everywhere you go.

Crenshinibon · #6 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007, 08:15 AM

But, if you kill the enemy by draining their intelligence, you do not get experience for them.

We didn't mean the limits of the times the ability can be chosen but the maximum amount of traps that can be layed down in a given area.

You can also buff yourself up with Improved Haste and six Tenser's to make yourself even more powerful. Fighter/Mage/Thieves don't get mage abilities. The second best weapon is the Greater Wolfwere one. As an added bonus it lets you regenerate 8 hitpoints a second. Double that with Improved Haste. For Fighter/Mage/Thief try backstabbing while buffed with Six Tenser's, shapeshifted into the Iron Golem and under the effects of Critical Strike.

Thrifalas · #7 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007, 09:44 AM

And how exactly do you stack tenser's since they don't allow spellcasting? Triggers?

Crenshinibon · #8 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007, 10:21 AM

Chain Contingency and Spell Trigger. I'd say that it's not a bug however cheesy as you cast them all at the same time. Also, be aware the Tenser's disables ALL of your abilities so if you want to fight while shapechanged and used the spell you need to first shapeshift, then cast the trigger and then trigger the contingency.

Thrifalas · #9 (**permalink**) 09-01-2007, 01:49 PM

Since it definately wasn't intended, I think we can agree upon it being very cheesy. Fun, still, might try it out someday.

Crenshinibon · #10 (**permalink**) 09-01-2007, 01:51 PM

Yep. This can make a mage best a Kensai in melee. Add a few other spells and you're unstoppable.

Klorox · #11 (**permalink**) 09-01-2007, 09:59 PM

FYI: w/o a XP cap remover, you'll never get level 9 spells with a trple-classed character.

Thrifalas · #12 (**permalink**) 09-02-2007, 08:06 AM

You won't get them with a cap remover either, unless it's a special built-in thingie. Not that it matters, having a fighter/mage/thief with max level in all levels can't really be stopped. Possibly by tactics/eclipse/ascention, but otherwise... no.

Edit: Um, I misread, I meant mage HLAs.