The old Cleric /Druid Argument - Page 2

Delacroix · #16 (**permalink**) 08-27-2001, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Astafas:
<STRONG>@Ivan:

I know for certain that the Avenger can use both Red Dragon Scale and the Ankheg Plate. He can probably use all other DRagon Scales, too.</STRONG>

So I'm confusing the things. When write that I remember the Avenger has something wrong.
I believe that was armor restriction, but now I am remember was the problem that he(avenger ) cannot dual class.
As it is based on memories (because I don't have the game now), it can be wrong too.

Sorry my mistake

Thanks Astafas

Obsidian · #17 (**permalink**) 08-27-2001, 12:28 PM

Its about time people give Cernd the respect he deserves. Though it's my first time through with the guy in my party, he's become indespensible after He hit Lvl 15 on ToB. So many spells, so little enemies.

Wait, so many spells, so many corpses left in my wake, Have you ever cast storm of Vengeance on a bunch of 8 lvl or lower enemies?? I think Cernd got 21 kills with that spell alone.

battlemage · #18 (**permalink**) 08-28-2001, 10:51 AM

Actually I believe shapeshifter is the best druid kit, because a shapeshifter can tank like a fighter. In Greater Wolfwere form, his AC starts at -10! (dexterity bonus included), with AC bonus from rings, cloaks and helmets you can go to AC -15 easily, so a GW will have lower AC than most fighters. The GW attacks 3 times per round, his paws count as a +2 weapon. If you let the druid duel wield before shapeshift, then the GW will attack 4 times per round! (All fighters cap at 4 attacks per round, unless they whirlwind). The effect from the off hand weapon will carry over, for example if you put club of detonation +5 in off hand, the GW's off-paw will be considered as a +5 weapon, so off-paw's THACO will be lower than main paw, and occasionally you'll detonate a fireball with it. I know this is an exploit of the game engine, but it's very very fun. Also I believe GW has 40% MR and 50% elemental resistances, that's an incredible bonus. THACO can be a problem for GW form, but low AC, high number of attacks, high resistances make up for that. In my experience, the GW form is way better than the greater elemental form, I soloed Sendai with the GW form without casting a single spell, she managed to "harm" me once and drained me to 1 hit point, but other than that, she didn't have a chance at all.

Christian · #19 (**permalink**) 08-28-2001, 01:12 PM

Mmmm...y'all seem to have forgotten to pinpoint just a few extra differences. A druid lacks all the personal boosting spells a cleric has, but also the druid only reaches level 31, a cleric level 40, and thats a substancial THACO and HP difference...
By the way, could someone explain the cleric/druid THACO table, every how many levels it goes down etc...?

Shadowwarrior · #20 (**permalink**) 08-28-2001, 02:14 PM

To battlemage, it is not correct with -10 AC for greater werewolf... sounds nice but actually it´s around -3 or something (not sure) but definitely not -10 AC

battlemage · #21 (**permalink**) 08-28-2001, 02:36 PM

If you have TOB installed, the GW base AC is set at -10. In SOA, it's much higher than that. Also both druid and cleric cap their THACO at 6, a druid can wear shadow dragon scale or white dragon scale, so the cleric's armor advantage is not much.

Christian · #22 (**permalink**) 08-28-2001, 02:49 PM

Ah...great, thanks. Anyhow, I forgot to mention multi cleric/ranger, full spell list, nuff said...
And for those who think clerics don`t fit thye roleplay as bhaalspawn, just read the PC cleric biography in BG1...he/she doesn`t receive his/her spells from any god (something like the sorcerer, it gave a name for this special kind of cleric, but I can`t remember). The kits on the other hand...pfff

UserUnfriendly · #23 (**permalink**) 08-28-2001, 09:34 PM

Koren, I think its

Non-denominational!

Giggle....

Christian · #24 (**permalink**) 08-29-2001, 07:23 AM

No,no...perhaps Avowed? Well something like that...

seanthony · #25 (**permalink**) 08-30-2001, 10:46 AM

Ok, the thing he was saying about a Shapshifter with -13 AC is, IMO, referring to the Greater Elemental transformation.. I know.. I just played my Shapeshifter a few seconds ago. Anyway, I managed to get it to be .. er.. -14 AC with a Ring +2.

But in human form, I was.. er.. -9 (I think). I have the Bracers of Dex, and Black Dragon scales.

But if Greater WW, I think it's something like... -5 AC or something. But my thaco was always a poor 4-5.

But I mean, attacking a person 3 times kinda pays off.. hehe

And IMO, Druids are good mid-game, really. Coz at Level 17 (I think), I had 6 level 7 spells.. imagine.. 6 Implosions.. yay. While my Anomen (also at level 17) had.. 2.

Yshania · #26 (**permalink**) 09-02-2001, 04:27 PM

This time through the game I had a cleric only briefly for their NPC quests (Aerie then Cernd). Other than that I completed the game with a druid/fighter based party

PC - Druid Avenger
Jaheira
Imoen
Mazzy
Korgan (exchanged for Sarevok)
Edwin

I did not feel I missed out on not having a cleric and the Druid Avenger CAN wear plate mail (animal based plate such as dragon scale or ankheg plate)

Once I installed ToB, my Avengers AC went to -7 (wearing red dragon scale) and bracers.

If your character is wearing a ring of protection as well as red dragon when you install ToB, take care not to unequip either - they cannot be equipped together due to the new magical properties of red dragon scale in ToB. If they are already equipped you will keep them.

Incidentally this is only useful if it is your PC wearing both, as soon as an NPC dies it will unequip all items...

[ 09-02-2001: Message edited by: Yshania ]