Question on new game

[Columbo]

Hi everyone, I never got around to completing BG2: SOA and am going to give it a go now.

I have the TOB expansion but I have read in several places that there are certain area's in the expansion that once you visit them you cannot go back to the original game, so my question is this:

If I install SOA and TOB from the start and make a fresh game will I through lack of knowledge end up in a situation where I cannot continue the original storyline?

Here is a quote of what I mean from a walkthrough:

"Once you enter the Expansion areas (with the exception of Watcher's Keep) you cannot return to the original game areas."

Also I have downloaded BG2_Fixpack-v4.exe - will this alter the game to an extent that if I get stuck and need to consult a walkthrough - the fixpack will have changed the game beyond the vanilla walkthrough?

Many Thanks.

[Crenshinibon]

I do not know anything about the fixpack but you cannot access any of the ToB areas (with the exception of Watcher's Keep, as stated above) until you beat SoA. Also, if you haven't already, I suggest that you play through the original Baldur's Gate as well.

Basically, what they're saying is make sure you did everything you wanted to before entering the expansions as in any SoA quests and what not.

[VonDondu]

Just to make sure there's no confusion, the Throne of Bhaal "expansion pacK" is kind of like a whole new game that starts at the end of Shadows of Amn. When you finish Shadows of Amn, the game will continue almost seamlessly in Throne of Bhaal. You will retain your old character, your old party members, and all of the items you were carrying, and things like the romances will continue. The new area called Watcher's Keep can be accessed in Shadows of Amn as well as Throne of Bhaal. If you go to Watcher's Keep in Shadows of Amn and don't finish all of the quests, you can return to Watcher's Keep when you play Throne of Bhaal.

Essentially, you need to finish all of the quests in Shadows of Amn (with the exception of Watcher's Keep) before you start playing Throne of Bhaal because you will not be able to go back to any of the other areas that were accessible in Shadows of Amn (not without using cheat codes, anyway). It would be very difficult (if not impossible) to make a mistake that would prevent you from being able to finish Shadows of Amn. ("Never say never.")

When you install Throne of Bhaal, some of the things in Shadows of Amn are modified. The experience cap is raised to 8 million, your characters can acquire High Level Abilities (because they can reach higher levels than before), and there are some new spells and a new Mage kit (the Wild Mage). A few items such as the Cloak of Mirroring were changed to make the game more balanced (the Cloak of Mirroring makes your character immune to most spells, but it no longer reflects the damage back upon the enemy caster). No changes were made to the plot in Shadows of Amn.

When you start the game, you will notice that there are two startup screens--one for Shadows of Amn and one for Throne of Bhaal. If you want to go directly to Throne of Bhaal, you can start a new game from scratch (or import a Final Save game from Shadows of Amn). You will start with a character who has 2.5 million experience points, and you will be given a Bag of Holding that contains a bunch of items such as +3 weapons, armor, arrows, bullets, a Ring of Invisibility, healing potions, etc., along with a few special items from Shadows of Amn such as the Flail of Ages +3. It's a lot less stuff than you would have had if you had played all the way through Shadows of Amn, but it's enough to get started. You'll have to solo the first encounter, but almost immediately after that, you will be able to summon all of the NPCs from Shadows of Amn (as well as a new NPC) to form your new party.

Throne of Bhaal is essentially a whole new adventure that takes up where Shadows of Amn left off. It's a very linear game with no sidequests besides Watcher's Keep. I strongly recommend that you finish Shadows of Amn before you go to Watcher's Keep, for several reasons. First of all, Watcher's Keep is a place where your party can gain huge amounts of treasure and millions of experience points. If you finish Watcher's Keep before you finish Shadows of Amn, you'll completely unbalance the game. Second of all, Throne of Bhaal needs a good sidequest to break up the linearity, and Watcher's Keep is perfect for that. And finally, the game detects your party's level and adds or subtracts monsters and traps accordingly to automatically adjust the level of difficulty. I prefer to fight all of the monsters and find all of the traps in Watcher's Keep, so I'd rather go there in Throne of Bhaal when my party is very high in level.

I think you'll get the hang of everything once you actually start the game.

The Baldurdash Fix Pack does not add any new quests to the game. It fixes bugs and resolves inconsistencies. A more advanced Fix Pack has been released by Gibberlings Three; it is called the G3 FixPack. It contains all of the material that appeared in the Baldurdash Fix Pack along with lots of new bug fixes and and minor corrections, ranging all the way from major bug fixes to minor cosmetic corrections that the vast majority of the human race would never notice in the first place.

There are many other mods that do add new quests and new characters. To the best of my knowledge, none of them will render Shadows of Amn unplayable if you make a mistake in one of the new quests.

There are also mods that are referred to as "Tweak Packs". Some of them add new items to the game, some of them make the game easier to play (for example, they might add several new Bags of Holding and raise the stack limit to make items easier to carry in your inventory), and some of them change the rules (for example, some of them allow Thieves to put three proficiency points in Two Weapon Style and other things like that). Some of them fix cosmetic issues or remove the experience cap or add new kits. You can do a search for more information in these forums, or you can start a new topic if it hasn't already been covered in a previous message thread. We would be happy to give you more advice.

Good luck!

[Columbo]

Thank you very much, answered everything I wanted to know.

Again Thank You.

[Columbo]

I actually do have another question regarding party creation - NOT BEST PARTY though

I like to create more than one character at start up so I do the multiplayer trick but I dont want to lose romances or character interactions so my question is:

Who in your opinion should be included in a good/neutral party based solely on interaction throughout the game.

I'm aware one must be either Aerie or Jaheira for the romance (Not including Viconia as I'm going good/neutral) but from a non romance interaction who has the best lines to make the party and adventure more fulfilling?

The reason I like to make more than one character at creation is so I can have the class and stats I specifically want in my party and not have to put up with whatever the game supplies and most of the NPC's I can get dont seem to have great stats for their class, for example:

If I make a Mage I would make a Gnome so I can get 19 Int straight away but the mages you get ingame with the exception of the evil Edwin have 17 or 16 Int, even the Gnome Jan only has 16 Int and from what I've read this greatly reduces the amount of spells you can learn per level.

So I want to make some party members but include some ingame ones for the interaction, so can anyone suggest who to get?

Many thanks for reading though my ramblings.

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by Columbo

Who in your opinion should be included in a good/neutral party based solely on interaction throughout the game.

I'm aware one must be either Aerie or Jaheira for the romance (Not including Viconia as I'm going good/neutral) but from a non romance interaction who has the best lines to make the party and adventure more fulfilling?

Jan Jansen. He has the best lines (and the most lines) out of all the NPCs.

Also, at high level, he has incredible power if you know how to tap into it (which is true of most NPCs). For example, take a look in the recent message threads concerning thieves in battle and backstabbing.

Originally Posted by Columbo

If I make a Mage I would make a Gnome so I can get 19 Int straight away but the mages you get ingame with the exception of the evil Edwin have 17 or 16 Int, even the Gnome Jan only has 16 Int and from what I've read this greatly reduces the amount of spells you can learn per level.

Intelligence doesn't really make much difference. It doesn't affect the number of spells a character can cast, and even a character with Intelligence 9 can learn 9th level spells. Intelligence does affect the number of spells you can write in your spellbook, but if the limit gets in your way, just have your character drink a Potion of Genius and/or a Potion of Mind Focusing and scribe the spells while your character's Intelligence is raised temporarily.

[galraen]

Firstly don't let the fact that Viconia starts out evil put you off, things can change.

Sixteen intelligence is perfectly adequate, you'll be able to get all the important spells in your book, there are an awful lot of useless spells in the game, and you can always erase a spell and replace it if you need to. Seventeen intelligence is more than enough, eighteen is a waste of an attribute point IMO, nineteen even more so. Intelligence doesn't affect how many spells you can memorise remember, unlike wisdom.

[Columbo]

Great Thank you Guys.

Jan is in my team then and I'll consider Viconia although I've heard that the Jaheira romance is the best one in terms of storyline - but I've never played that far before so I have no idea really.

[VonDondu]

Jaheira's presence in your party opens up a lengthy subplot involving Harpers. The subplot will take place even if you don't romance her, but the romance adds more dialogue and makes things a little more interesting.

Personally, I think the romance with Aerie after you start Throne of Bhaal is a little more fun. Speaking of Aerie, she is the only NPC who will romance a gnome (without installing a mod). She doesn't think of herself as a true elf anymore, and in addition to being very fond of gnomes, she also identifies with them. (As a Cleric, she serves a gnomish god.)

Since you want a lot of interaction in your party, maybe you should add more NPCs to your party instead of playing multiple characters of your own. I suggest the following party:

PC (any class you prefer, but I suggest a Berserker, a Fighter/Mage, or a Specialist Mage--perhaps a Wild Mage if you enjoy unpredictability and greater risk)
Aerie (romance)
Minsc
Haer'Dalis
Jan Jansen
Jaheira

Jaheira is kind of grouchy (that's what makes her an interesting character, right?) but the rest of them are a lot of fun. You'll get plenty of interaction.

I won't try to prove that they are the most powerful party; but I assure you that you have nothing to lose if you play a full six-member party. If you can figure out how to use their skills to the max, the party I suggested is actually pretty awesome. For example, at high levels Aerie can put Quest Level Cleric spells in her spell triggers, Jan can set lots of Spike Traps (plus he's a Mage who can cast lots of powerful spells), and Jaheira is an awesome "tank" with Ironskins, buffing spells, and High Level Abilities from the Warrior pool. At lower levels, Minsc (your strongest melee warrior) will protect the party and probably make most of the kills, but he won't be the most powerful party member at higher levels. Haer'Dalis might be the weakest link because Bards are difficult to play, but he always has something to offer. For example, he can inflict more damage in one round than anyone else at low levels if you combine Melf's Minute Meteors with Offensive Spin, and even if you keep him out of combat at mid levels, he can cast useful spells such as one of my favorite combinations, Greater Malison-Glitterdust-Emotion as well as spells such as Slow. If you buff him up, he's very tough in short bursts (Mirror Image, Stoneskin, Improved Haste, Tenser's Transformation). I picture Haer'Dalis as a Blade (naturally), but he also makes a good Swashbuckler or Kensai (he's the closest thing to a "sword saint" in the game), and sometimes I change his class with an editor.

I don't know how you'll handle the rescue of Imoen with a full party of six since you won't have room for her in your party. But there are ways around it, and it's not a big problem.

[Sytze]

To profit the most from the storyline, I would advice to take the first four characters you come across with you. That means Imoen/Yoshimo, Jaheira and Minsc. Whatever character you add next depends completely on your own taste.

Personally, I'm a big fan of Haer'Dalis. Besides being a witty, smart and fun character, he can be a very useful addition to any party, as Von has already mentioned. Unlike Von, however, I really don't like Jan Jansen. I fear I'm one of the few on this board who finds him boring, a bit too longwinded for comfort, and most of all cumbersome. The gnome is widely regarded as one of the funniest NPC's around, though, so you probably need to try him out yourself to find out on which side of fence you stand.

My own roleplaying party would thus consists of Imoen/Yoshimo, Jaheira, Minsc, Aerie and Haer'Dalis. It's a strong, versatile, fun and banter heavy party. Should you play with a Gnome, however, I would forget about either Jaheira or Dalis (because of your romance with Aerie, who is then your only lover possibility) and perhaps add Jan.

Remember, whichever you choose, you can’t go wrong. The game is great with practically any party composition thinkable.

Have fun!

[Crenshinibon]

It's all a matter of opinion really. Every individual views characters in a different light. While Von says that Minsc would be the strongest fighter within that party, for me, Haer' Dalis is much more of a fighter than Minsc and more of a tank than Jahiera (I never really used her as a tank so maybe that's why). Even without buffs, Haer' Dalis would be able to take and do more damage than almost all other characters within the party, just by using his special abilities... except for Jan and Aerie that is. Mages tend to be very powerful if you know how to use them and thieves, they are very fun to play and are also strong if you know how to use them. Every single character has something to offer whether it is powerful magic or a unique set of skills and even their personality. You can always look through the class threads in this forum by using the search feature where some of the members describe good tactics with a certain class and you could get an insight on how we use those characters and perhaps find your own style. Like Sytze said, you can't go wrong with any combination and enjoy this game.

[Columbo]

Thank you all.

Certainly given me something to think about.

I've been reading up a bit more and I keep reading that a good party has some combination of 3 Tanks and 3 Mages.

So far I have settled on from your posts:

Definites:

Aerie, Minsc, Haer'Dalis & Jaheira and myself (To fill in a role I'm lacking)

Then I think I will choose ONE of either Jan or Imoen as they are both Mage/Thieves. (Probably Imoen to keep Jaheira, Minsc and Imoen together from BG1)

With those I will have if I go Fighter/Mage:

Tanks, Myself, Minsc, Jaheira & Haer'Dalis
Mages, Myself, Aerie & Jan/Imoen
2 Healers, Jaheira & Aerie
A Bard

Somehow though I would like to get a Paladin in their somewhere, either Keldorn or myself as I keep reading about how great Carsomyr is.

If I make myself a Paly then I lose a Mage spot if I get Keldorn then who do I drop?

As I like the idea of keeping the 3 BG1 characters together then that means dropping either Aerie or Haer'Dalis and Haer'Dalis looks like the scapegoat as I need the spells and heals from Aerie.

So confusing Funny how the part I enjoy most is setting up my party on paper before I even set foot in the game

[fable]

With those I will have if I go Fighter/Mage...

Consider a kensai/mage, dualed at level 9. You can work up an astonishingly powerful killing machine with great defenses, or just hang back and shoot spells at your team and the enemies.

If I make myself a Paly then I lose a Mage spot if I get Keldorn then who do I drop?

Haer'dalis. He's really not much of a tank, even in ToB.

[Sytze]

Three mages, just like three fighters, really aren't that necessary. I usually follow this composition: two fighters, two mages, one thief, and one cleric or druid.

If I play the game, I usually play as an Archer/Thief (F/T, really) with Jah, Minsc, Imoen, Kelsey (sorcerer) and whatever NPC I feel like taking along, which is usually Dalis. That's a very balanced party, in my opinion.

Should you decide to go with a Paladin, you've covered all the basics as well. You've got two, even three mages (Imoen, Aerie and Dalis), four fighters if managed correctly, one cleric, one druid and one thief. You might want to bring Yoshimo along until Imoen rejoins your party so you're not missing out on the skills offered by the thieving department for too long.

Good luck!

[Crenshinibon]

It's not necessary to have one of each class as the game is playable with any combination of characters.

The character's strength and weaknesses depend on how the individual plays them so towards the end I found Haer' Dalis doing about eight to ten attacks per round with -24 AC and around 300 hit points... not to mention Stoneskin.

The level at witch you dual should depend on what you want your character to focus in. I personally dual my Kensai to a mage at level nineteen and still find a good balance between the two classes. You are good in melee... the best out of all possible combinations if you use buffs and your spells are still powerful and if the spell strength is indeed capped at level 20, then you have nothing to worry about as in that case all a level 31 mage would have over you is more spells per day. Also, I often let my mages and priests tank as they have ways of avoiding damage or reducing it greatly while at the same time keeping an enemy's attention upon them.

As for Imoen filling the thief role, I feel that she is somewhat lacking there and that Jan or Yoshimo may be a better choice.