Question on new game

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by Crenshinibon

It's all a matter of opinion really. Every individual views characters in a different light. While Von says that Minsc would be the strongest fighter within that party...

Just to clarify what I said (I admit it wasn't clear), I meant that Minsc would be the strongest melee warrior in the party when all of them are low in level. He is not the strongest melee warrior when all of them are high in level (Haer'Dalis and Jaheira can kick his butt if they're played skillfully), and Minsc is certainly not the most powerful member in the party overall. "Even" Aerie could kick his butt (not in melee, but with spells) if they both had 8 million experience points, and she's just a little girl elf. But if you want to fight, say, an army of fire giants, it's nice to have a warrior like Minsc on your side, since he never runs out of butt-kicking melee attacks.

Originally Posted by Crenshinibon

for me, Haer' Dalis is much more of a fighter than Minsc and more of a tank than Jahiera (I never really used her as a tank so maybe that's why). Even without buffs, Haer' Dalis would be able to take and do more damage than almost all other characters within the party, just by using his special abilities... except for Jan and Aerie that is...

Make up your mind.

Originally Posted by Columbo

I've been reading up a bit more and I keep reading that a good party has some combination of 3 Tanks and 3 Mages...

Somehow though I would like to get a Paladin in their somewhere, either Keldorn or myself as I keep reading about how great Carsomyr is.

If I make myself a Paly then I lose a Mage spot if I get Keldorn then who do I drop?

You don't NEED to have three tanks and three Mages. I thought your point in asking us for advice was to pick a party that has the best dialogue, not the "best" party? If you have one fighter, one cleric, one thief, and one mage, then you have all of your bases covered, and the rest is just power-gaming.

Anyway, if you want Keldorn in your party, he's not a bad choice at all, but I wouldn't make him a party member just for the chance to use Carsomyr. It's a great weapon indeed, but I can live without it. If you had to remove someone else to make room for Keldorn, I'd pick Jaheira. But then you'd lose the Harper subplot. See the tradeoff? You have to decide whether Carsomyr (or something else about Keldorn) is worth the trade.

You don't have to make your main character a Fighter/Mage, either. If you want a Paladin in your party, an Inquisitor or Cavalier makes a great main character in this particular game, since it's made with an obvious bias for righteous heroes. The game does everything it can to make you feel good about yourself if you play such a character.

Originally Posted by Columbo

I think I will choose ONE of either Jan or Imoen as they are both Mage/Thieves. (Probably Imoen to keep Jaheira, Minsc and Imoen together from BG1)...

I like the idea of keeping the 3 BG1 characters together...

I like Imoen, and I like the idea of preserving the continuity of BG1 and BG2. I have a great deal of trouble not keeping Imoen in my party no matter who else is in it. She plays a critical role in the story, and I like to give her a chance to shine.

On the other hand, she doesn't have much dialogue. I've heard rumors that originally, she was supposed to die in Spellhold, so the game designers did not write any dialogue for her for the second half of Shadows of Amn. She's practically mute. She does have many conservations with the other NPCs in Throne of Bhaal, and some of them are very funny, but due to a bug, her dialogues don't appear unless you install a bug fix (the scripts can't find her in your party because her name is misspelled "Imeon" or something like that, which goes to show why we need fix packs). So again, she's mute. Poor Imoen.

It's just one of those decisions you have to make: do you want Imoen in your party, or would you rather have a character who has even better dialogue? Personally, if I had to choose between Imoen and Jan (a strange choice, in my opinion), I would choose Jan. Even though I like Imoen. Quite simply, he has better dialogue, whether we're talking about the comments he makes in certain situations (like the time you meet a dead god) or whether we're talking about the conversations he has with other NPCs. If you don't get a chance to see what he says to Keldorn, Viconia, and Anomen, then ask us for transcripts--you don't want to miss any of his dialogues.

[Thrifalas]

Those "rumors" are most probably true, considering her lack of dialogue even though she's the most important NPC in the whole game, your in-game Dreams, and the books that were written about it.

And mate, dont bother too much about what other says are great lineups or that Carsomyr would be so usefull. I practically drooled over that weapon the first time I found it, nowadays I hardly ever uses it. It's bugged in many ways and I'd say that there are lots of better weapons, including SotM, Ravager and Unyielding.

The vanilla game can be soloed by any class. No matter what lineup you have, it's most likely not gonna be a problem. Hell, I managed my first runthough with 5 mages even though I knew practically nothing about spells. (MM spamming, gogo!)

[Crenshinibon]

Don't forget the Staff of the Ram. Also, I thought I'd mention that thieves, at higher levels get an ability called Use Any Item which amazingly enough lets you use any item (although you do have to meet the statistic requirements so no full plate if you have three strength), so what I'm getting at here is that if you REALLY can't live with Carsomyr you can always give it to a high level thief (your character should you decide to take that class, Jan or Yoshimo).

[Columbo]

Thanks again everyone.

Loads of great tips here and a lot of decisions to make but the fun factor overrides everything else so getting entertaining party members is foremost, so with that said I've decided on:

Myself - Paladin - probably Cavalier
Jaheira
Minsc
Jan
Aerie
& Haer'dalis

From my reckoning that covers all the basis pretty well with 4 fighters, 3 Healers, 3 Mages and a thief plus the extra abilities the mixture of classes have.

Unfortunately that means Imoen gets dropped but I can live with that I think unless I find out she's critical story wise later.

Again I thank you all for your insights and help.

[Crenshinibon]

No characters are actually critical to the story. They're nice to have for the storyline value but you can just as easily solo the game although you might want to try that way later in your BG career.

[galraen]

Looks like a well balanced party to me Columbo.

Spoiler (highlight to read)

If you don't mind taking advantage of a glitch, put two weapon proficiencies in Axe, as well as two in Two-Handed Sword.Spoiler Ends

[Thrifalas]

Originally Posted by Crenshinibon

Don't forget the Staff of the Ram.

I didn't, it's horribly overrated. Knockback is mainly annoying and the damage isn't that awesome. 14-22 base damage, FoA has 16-21, is onehand, has MR, slowing ability and Elemental Damage. The *only* usability of the staff is for fun, to make overkill-backstabs.

[Columbo]

Just loaded up the game with TOB installed, the latest patch and most of the G3 fixes.

Now right at the beginning I'm level 7, is that right? I kind of expected to start at level 1 but maybe it starts at 7 as a carry on from BG1 or is it a bug from the G3 fixes?

Many Thanks.

[Crenshinibon]

You are supposed to start at that level as you finish BG with 89,000 experience. The Tales of the Sword Coast expansion lets you go all the way up to 160,000. If you had those two games, you could import your characters into BGII.

[Columbo]

Great, Thank you.

[CFM]

You're gonna dig your party. Jaheira has alot to say during many of the story's events, H'D & Aerie have alot to say when paired together, Jan has alot to say period, and Minsc's running commentary of events with Boo is just nuts. And as previously mentioned, a heroic paladin is an appropriate protagonist for this game. A few other mentions:

If you romance Aerie, you get several additional banters with her and H'D.

If you romance Jaheira, you get an expanded version of one of the game's cooler side-quests. (Beware of bugs with J's romance, although the G3 fixpack may squash these.)

I'm an Imoen advocate, but it's impossible to see everything in one playthru. New class, new stronghold, new alignment, new party... this game screams to be played more than once.

The BG Saga is one big story, detailing your protagonist's start from humble level 1 beginnings in Candlekeep, to the final epic battles in ToB. I HIGHLY recommend playing BG1 first. You'll appreciate the epic story of SoA and ToB that much more.

[galraen]

There is one caveat regarding playing a Paladin if the player is a serious role player Spoiler foollows, highlight to read:

If you are a serious role player then getting to Spellhold to release Imoen requires you to work with either an outright evil faction, or an evil oriented criminal faction. Obviously no slef respecting Paladin would do this. This prevented me from playing the game with a Paladin until I discovered the Saerileth mod, which provides a third way to gget to Spellhold by working for the Radiant Heart. The Saerileth mod is available here Saerileth Mod, if you're interested.

Spoiler ends

[Columbo]

Thanks again.

I've had a little change around and have now settled on this party for my first run through:

Myself - Kensai/Mage
Jaheira
Minsc
Imoen
Aerie
Jan

Obviously that means Haer'Dalis has been dropped but for my first time through I wanted to keep the BG1 characters together.

And choosing a Paladin just for 1 weapon is a bit silly so I went for a class both recommended and one I think I will enjoy.

Only thing now is when to dual over to a Mage, I have read three opinions, 9, 15 and 19

I'm assuming that 9 was when it's just SOA and 19 is the natural jump when the added XP comes into play with TOB so seeing as I'm intending to play all of SOA & TOB should I wait until level 19 to dual or for a first time through is that a long time to wait?

Many Thanks.

*Edit*

Just had a thought - the only reason I'm choosing Minsc is because he is amusing and an original BG1 character but to be honest I'm not a big fan of Rangers, so I was wondering what would happen if I changed his class to a Paladin with Shadowkeeper?

To me there is not really that much difference between a Paladin and Ranger to start with, both Fighters that have Priest spells, so if I did this would it affect anything ingame, his story for instance?

Many Thanks

[Crenshinibon]

Changing Minsc's class to a paladin won't affect the game but somehow I don't see him as one. From a roleplaying point of view Minsc would better serve as a Barbarian or Berzerker but definitely not a paladin although if you don't mind that feel free to make the change.

I suggest to dual at level 19 because by that time you'll be getting a +6 to hit and damage of the Kensai and you will be able to old your own in battle. Even if you dual, the bonus carries over. As a mage you will have a fairly good time in melee due to your Kensai levels, you'll have a nice amount of life and you can gain experience through scrolls, quests and combat. When I play that mix I often use the Spell Shapeshift at higher levels in order to use the given bonus, not to mention that spell gives access to two of the best "weapons" in the game and on top of all that you can buff yourself up. You are quite literally untouchable in Greater Wolfwere form and the Iron Golem form would be causing you do chunk everything because of such high damage.

[Columbo]

Great Thanks.

I've always thought of and played Minsc as a Fighter/Tank first with back up heals so switching him to a Paladin seems perfect in my eyes, of course he will no longer be able to beserk but thats ok with me as long as it doesn't affect the game with him as a Paladin.