Tactics Made Easy - Spoilers Not-False

[Amran_X_Kaiser]

This is a post requesting all those that want help without spoon-feeding answers to how to beat several of the battles in BG2 tactics mod I'd like to know - having read alot about the difficulty of the battles involved mainly the tough cookies that give you a reward also (looting it of their miserable carcasses) I thought it would be useful - however whether or not this proceeds is up to the forum people on whether or not it would benefit them.

Future battles that are underway will also be edited in this post should it proceed.

[Luis Antonio]

Tactics made easy :

Edit baldur.ini

add "debug=1" line

Point to your enemy, hit Ctrl Y.

Tactics is not supposed to be easy. You'll have to fight every battle thinking on how to actually survive your PC and NPC's. Its a carefull art, something to be done without rush, without flaws, cause flaws cause deaths and usually the bodies get destroyed on the floor and you cant even raise dead.

[Amran_X_Kaiser]

Actually me method involves actual gameplay and in-game tactics but feel free to wuss out and use Ctrl-Y

[Luis Antonio]

Originally Posted by Amran_X_Kaiser

Actually me method involves actual gameplay and in-game tactics but feel free to wuss out and use Ctrl-Y

Btw, will you face Ilych or will you chicken out? A frontal assault is always a slaughter agaisnt them, and I'd like to hear what will you do except for ctrl Y

[VonDondu]

I once beat Improved Ilyich in a straight-up fight, but I cheated. First of all, I didn't try to fight Ilyich until I had cleared out the rest of Irenicus's dungeon. Then I rested and began my preparations. My main character was a Wild Mage. I think I gave him some extra experience to match what he would have had if I had played him all the way through BG1 without an experience cap. I also gave him Animate Dead. After a couple of Wild Surges, he was able to cast spells at 15th Level, so he was able to summon a couple of Skeleton Warriors. (I reloaded several times before I achieved the desired effect.) He used Enchanted Weapon (given to him at character creation) to create a couple of +3 maces for Minsc, who drank a Potion of Haste. I don't think Yoshimo and Imoen were able to do any backstabbing, so I probably let Yoshimo use a bow with +1 arrows and let Imoen cast spells such as Magic Missile, Melf's Acid Arrow, and so forth. I can't remember what Jaheira was doing--probably casting Summon Insects, Call Woodland Beings, Armor of Faith, etc. and wielding a Flame Blade (unless I gave her enough experience to summon fire elementals and cast Iron Skin). I took advantage of the terrain, so to speak (the bookcases) to keep Minsc and the skeleton warriors from being attacked by everyone all at once, especially the archers, whom I targeted with my spellcasters. EDIT: I think I used a lot of Skull Traps. It was such a mess, I figured once was enough.

[Sytze]

I posted how I beat Illyich some time ago. The thread can be found here.

Hit and run, summons, potions, and ranged weapons are the key in this battle. When a duergar goes down, get his equipment asap. Especially Illyich's. You have no idea how valuable the acorns are.

Originally Posted by VonDondu

It was such a mess, I figured once was enough.

I thought you liked chaos?

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by Sytze

I thought you liked chaos?

I enjoy having my characters chased around a big room while they take down a big dragon little by little. But I don't enjoy reloading over and over to get things set up for a battle, or pausing so often that it disrupts the flow of the game. If it feels like a real situation, it's great, but if it feels too much like a game and I'm putting all of my effort into beating the system, it isn't as fun anymore.

[Amran_X_Kaiser]

Good read Sytze especially considering the detail.

Although that guide did take you through step-by-step that's not my idea. I tend to just to say - avoid, run stop or kill etc. rather than telling them what to do.

It gives the user something to think about - how these tactics can be achieved by themselves without needing to give them the answer and hopefully increase their gaming experience and enjoyment of the game.

Whether or not frontal assualts work, answer is probably no in big doses but there maybe those that found it fun going toe-to-demonclaw etc with the entire gang in the dungeon.

Also the upcoming strategy help with also give you several hints about 3 other (regarded as difficult) battles with more on the way.

[Sytze]

Originally Posted by VonDondu

But I don't enjoy... [snip]... pausing so often that it disrupts the flow of the game.

You pretty much nailed the biggest downside for me when playing Tactics and other improved battles mod's. Although I truly like the challenge, the fulfilling feeling when beating a difficult battle, and receiving exciting new awards for exciting new encounters, all that thinking about the best way to approach a battle slows down the game. Pausing becomes tedious if not completely irritating, especially after playing BG countless of times.

[Luis Antonio]

Originally Posted by Sytze

You pretty much nailed the biggest downside for me when playing Tactics and other improved battles mod's. Although I truly like the challenge, the fulfilling feeling when beating a difficult battle, and receiving exciting new awards for exciting new encounters, all that thinking about the best way to approach a battle slows down the game.

Yes, and yet, no. Because without the pausing function the game would be very hard to play (I've tried a no pause game, it works, yet you die a LOT more often. The game was not with tactics on).

I do like tough battles, I do like the need for at least total attention in what you do, and I do like having to deal with improved enemies and items. But I am sure Tactics could be less troubling: For example, have mages actually cast spell instead of just triggering them by script. That would allow a lot of less pauses, (specially in the ToB battles, namely last battle, with the five and amelissan chasing you after a very hard battle against Irenicus and Bodhi).

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by Luis Antonio

I do like tough battles, I do like the need for at least total attention in what you do...

Do you enjoy spending half a day of your life on each battle? I just don't feel like doing that over and over.

[Luis Antonio]

Originally Posted by VonDondu

Do you enjoy spending half a day of your life on each battle? I just don't feel like doing that over and over.

I dont do that anymore, but in the beggining I didnt really know how the mechanics of the spells worked (used to play with many tanks, tactics needs the subtlety of magic to be done) and I need to force-learn them while slaying Ilych and Maevar and the others. That was hard, really, and I needed to plan every step before going there. After a while I've read some of the User Unfriendly cheeseguide and that helped me achieve a very better use of spells. Of course after that I've become crazy for spellcasting heavy parties, even though I dont use dualed characters - I prefer multiclassed characters. At ToB they're just lovely. Anyway, now I know what's happening ahead of me, and that helps me choosing what to do, and spending just a few minutes of planning ahead of each battle.

Btw, I'm trying to avoid cheese at all costs now, cause tactics is doable without cheese. Ascension, in the other hand (specially the last battle and improved giants) is unfair and evil.

[Amran_X_Kaiser]

Good points all round !

The strategies that I may post given enough incentive by others users, are not spoon-feeding strategies so as to whether or not they actually help you is something that you will have o decide on yourself.

I think given based on the posts that it would be beneficial to post some of the battle-winning strategies but given the xp as to what my character(s) were at the time can be left up to debate as any of the battles can be done at any point of the game.

[Amran_X_Kaiser]

Here are the strategies that I used to beat the tactics battles that I feel deserver 'special attention'

'Lately using tactics has been fun, I use to just sit there and heal myself continously on the mods, but now after careful inspection and spell memorization and tactics, I can safely say tactics is very doable and is not over-powered (minus faldorn but I believe she can be beaten (without cheese))

A long time ago.....

After hearing complaints that tactics was handing people their own heads on a platter, I checked it out for myself, being a veteran, I studied the tactics used and what can be exploited - safe to say several battles can be done with a party of 2-3 or maybe even one if your pushing it. The mods are virtual godsen to powergamers as it utilizes tactics, strategies and spells to the maximum - fortunately so did I so I was chuffed when Illyich managed to waste me stupid as it showed me someone finally managed to make a mod that was worthwhile. Couple tactics, ascension, apack - this was used in prepatory research into the effectiveness of assassins, ease of use but no item upgrade - maybe later but I like the items they way they are - however future mods I will be playing when I have the time will be sola, kelsey, xan and maybe another one haven't decided. One thing is important - I didn't install XP cap remover - don't like it. Whenever I export my char I lose the abilities that were innately for that class, archer>call shot eg. Still, using this to my advantage to overcome the mods mentioned above was challenging.

Not so long ago....

Improved Illyich I finally handed is head to him on platter, Lich in City Gates totally wasted and the slave lords plus the Kangaxx Gaurdians.

Illyich has no mage power to speak of - use this against him and try not to get in the way of slow/fatiguing innate ability. Karazamov is the most dangerous with his crowssbow as it his +2 plus +3 bolts - show me something that isn't immune to +5 weapons ! Zhivago can be a pain but not if he doesn't call Summon Fallen Planetar - stop that and your fine (then beat her to death), if you don't you may as well reload. Illyich and Rasputin can be done in with hitting them enough times (deurgar brutes are just small brutes - hit brutes enough times....) The Cornugon demon is tough but not unbeatable with the right spell available to a... (intentionally forgets). Ah the jailkeep golem - a tough one no doubt - but simple move - kill illyich take his hammer and bash in the golems skull or use a one of several low-level spells available to all classes that can cast-spells which I won't mention - tip, hide in bookcases often.

The City Gates lich is easy - you have the first move if you cast an invisibility spell, while most people just run for daystar, I used this as an oppurtunity to beat him in a mage duel with my mage protaganist, no triggers or contiginies were used at this time since I couldn't find the scrolls for them and the sorcerer spells are too limitied to use in tactics plus the fact I had only 3 party members I had to utilize all the spells I could. The lich is tough but he doesn't use his spells until he can: identify you, timestop, gate a demon and then kill you with spells - stopping him may not be possible with his spell trigger so use that 1st spell to your advantage - oh and you only have 3-4 seconds to use it until his trigger comes up so don't take too long or it may not even work - if he summons a demon you die painfully - I did anyway.

The Slave Lords have long been regarded has tough cookies, true they are, koshi and sion are tough with those two tough brutes slaughtering your spellcasters and the assassin and cleric providing support - seem their pretty well organised with their barrels of summons. Here's a hint, cast the correct two spells with a single trigger or a mage and bard combo and you have instantly removed their effectiveness by half (these scrolls are in Athlaka also so it can be done) I tackled these guys with an ordinary party of six to prove it could be done. Koshi has no physical or magical defence once his defences are gone - so remove em. Ketta can backstab, not fight, not swallow a protection potion - just backstab - so stop here from doing so. The big brutes are just that - brutes - hit brutes enough times and they go down, if brute force isn't working your not using enough. Sion and Stalman are high level spellcasters and summoners, kill them and do it fast, I personally at this point used a sequencer of 2 dispelling spells combined and a defensive spell that may or may not have had an effect - I ended up attacking them in the end with everyone. If Sion gets of his timestop you are going to die - no exaggeration, 3 abi-dhalzims are nothing that you can stand against. Multiple mass healings that my cleric had the first time I fought them didn't help that much. Stop stalman from summoning is fairly easy once his protection is gone, sion you have to beat with a mage so you better have one that can cast peirce magic, breach and remove magic - and anything else that is useful. Oh and to prove my point that tactics is doable, I fought the Slave Lords and won and still had my entire party left alive, if a little worse for wear.

The Kangaxx gaurdians are hard but also rather ...stupid. Basically remove the lichs protections and cast an area of effect offensive spell, which is up to you but mines was a level 6 one, if you have a mage, everyone will attack you - even the lich at the far side since your just out of his vision- the lich near the stairs just summons pesky critters (demons, skeletons and other annoying creatures that suck you dry) Once the lich from the far-side get nears go outside (yes you heard me correctly) The minotuars and skeletons will follow you - kill them - even though you re-enter they magically re-appear - once critical thing has happend - you cast dispelled the protections on the liches and went outside to plan your next move. Use this tactic to your advantage - just watch out if the fighter follows you - he can cause a world of hurt. The dwarf has a soul reaver sword I think so its best to pound him into oblivion before he kills you. The liches will remain in the house while you go in and out taking chunks out of them with swords and spells but also with you being able to recuperate and manageable periods. How to kill the liches you say ? Beats me. Find a tactic you like and use it - preferably on the lich that casts the evocation spells rather than the conjuration spells.

Unfortunately I have not found a tactic to kill the 'lich in the docks' - she is a tough one, going to try out some tactics involving two rarely used spells. If I do I'll edit this post. Hope this helps. Although there was a tactic I used against improved bodhi, going to leave that to the imagination, let others find a way to beat her up.'

[Sytze]

Originally Posted by Amran_X_Kaiser

Unfortunately I have not found a tactic to kill the 'lich in the docks' - she is a tough one, going to try out some tactics involving two rarely used spells. If I do I'll edit this post. Hope this helps. Although there was a tactic I used against improved bodhi, going to leave that to the imagination, let others find a way to beat her up.'

Send a mage with Improved Invisibility and SI:Abjuration (plus tons of other defensive spells, you know the drill). Then, have him/her stand at the bottom of the map. Stay there, because I think the Lich can't see you there. If you feel like you're standing relatively safe, start the summoning process. Skellies are invaluable, but any summon will do really, just as long as the Lich wastes her spells. If she wasted them all, she will go all out with stuff as BBoD, Tenser's Transformation, etc. When she does, make sure you send the rest of the party inside, else you will end up with a dead mage anyway.

As for beating the guys in the Guarded Compound, try sending a mage with SI:Abjuration and SI:Necromancy to Sion. If he manages to trigger his Time Stop, he will target the nearest enemy. If that is your mage, he will waste all of his precious spells on a protected character.