Roleplaying, non-cheese AND solo-playing

[Littiz]

I post this topic partly in response of what I read once, I think a message by Xyx, who said that playing solo is easy, just rest a lot and go.
Xyx more often than not gets the point, but this time I disagree (by the way, your smart beholders are killer!!!!Good work! I await for smart mages!!!!!)
First, you could do the same with a full party.
I have a game (currently in ToB) with four mages (including Aerie) and two fighters. You can rest in the plane, always.
And you can have unlimited whirlinds and the like who protect the mages, while they cast always 10 level spells. Isn't this easy?
ToB is difficult in many ways, but if you play like this you can win the battles almost always on the first try.
But try to play SoA solo, avoiding ALL forms af cheese and roleplaying as much as possible.
I mean, rest a lot IS CHEESE!!!!!
Would you (or would your DM permit to) rest wounded, alone,in an hostile dungeon filled with monster?
And consider that if most of the quest are untimed, your char would feel that they are. I think about rescuing Imoen, or
searching Irenicus to recover your soul.
And if you avoid, above all, the greatest of the cheesy ways
(preparations before unexpected battles) you'll find how really can be fun, and difficult, this game.
You'll try to get the maximum even from the puniest of your abilities,and you'll discover that sequencers, triggers and contingencies are there to save your life in unpredicted situations, not for strong attacks.
I have a Fighter/Mage/Thief, I'm currently in the Drow City after
23 days of adventuring. I made before only the slave quest, Nalia's Keep and the Planar Prison.
And the thoughest battles of all were the ambushes between city areas! I was totally unprepared (you're not supposed to cast protective spells beforehand all the time!!), without stoneskin, not allowed to cast spells, sorrounded by bandits!!!
Once I just had to drink health potions and run away for my life!
Then I managed to clean Nalia's keep without rest. I distracted the Umber Hulks, but having killed the boss I realized that I was
hired to clean the place after all, so, I found a way to kill them all with the three spells left: Fireball, lighting and Minor spell turning. The Umber Hulks were allined in the corridor, so I could resist the confusion cast by the first two, double hit them with the bolt, run like hell in the other room and cast fireball.
One of them survived, confused me but I killed him while confused!
This example was to explain the kind of play I make.
Try to make the Planar Prison without resting (I couldn't even think of resting THERE!) with a lonely F/M/T about level 11.
I only allowed myself to make preparations before stepping through the portal (this makes sense to me after all, I could appear everywhere!).

I mean, if you avoid ALL forms of cheese, the game is difficult.
And if you play solo, is very, very fun.
About spells like Cloudkill, sure they can be cheese, but I found in spellhold that Cloudkill can kill instantly Umber Hulks, and
if one survives, he comes to fight you OUT of the cloud, so this spell can still be used. Or you can cast this kind of spells
and remain yourself in the area, this is enough fairplay I think
(but you can always protect yourself someway!!!

Marginal note on roleplaying: I couldn't let Imoen alone, after
rescuing her, I came to free her!!!
(I admit, I can't resist her!)
So, actually I'm not really solo!!!

I let her out of fights 'couse she's much weaker than me, when
I'll be outta Underdark I'll live her in my stronghold!!!
I lose only experience this way....
I know, I'm losing my grip to reality!

[Kovi]

Good points. In the spring we had similar discussions in the board.
In my opinion the game can be played either as power-gaming or as role-playing, but it is not really possible to play with mixed.
Of course, you could set up limits for your power-gaming, which are influenced by role-playing aspects. Like your no-rest case. But with challenge you will also raise the risk level. How much risks can you handle? (as a role player) Or what is the "cost" of one death compared to one rest? (as a power-gaming)
About solo vs. party: of course both can be easy. If we compare them at the same (total) xp, I would say a (powerclass) solo is generally easier. After reaching the xp cap (in solo), this balances out.
About limiting the use of contingencies/sequencers: I agree that is a good way to have more challenge.
Not preparing before battles: that also sounds good. But the real way is to play through the first time (not knowing what is coming). See two's no-death solo through first time ToB. Of course, these goals again "contradict" the minimize rest "goal".
Congrats for doing those quests without rest. I admit I would not try to finish the Planar Sphere within one day in solo (except with sneaking through, but then I rather wouldn't enter at all).
Anyway after finishing for the first time I basically do powergaming. I have played a couple of ways: minimize rest/death/game time/play-time mostly solo and no-cheese rules with different classes. In my last games I dropped those goals and choose a different challenge: I'm playing without items.

[Silvanerian]

You've got some good points there, Littiz.
But a solo fighter for instance is pretty easy in my opinion. They're "always" prepared fro battle, seeing as they only have to draw their sword. When I solo a fightertype I only find him challenged a few times in the game. But I must admit the rod of ressurection saves his sorry soul a couple of times. (which is only somewhat cheesy in my opinion, as that particular spell is "only" ment to actually bring someone back from the dead, not heal. But in my games, I pretend that it's a rod of Heal, which I think would be just as accesable as a RoR, as "Heal" is a level 6 cleric spell. - Rods cast spells, so why not "Heal"?
Anyway, what is cheesy in my opinion is to sell/buy it anywhere to have it fully reloaded.
It would be alright to sell it to the Vigil Knights (or a temple) and then buy it back after about a week or so, as they are high level clerics (amongst other things) and don't have anything to do but wait for the character to do their quest. But not to sell/buy it at the local inkeeper or weaponsmith.

Still, as a lonely mage in a hostile area (which is practically anywhere - especially in ToB) I would at least have myself stoneskinned at all times. That's common sence to me. But summoning a bunch of allies with a project image before entering the fray you don't even know is to come, is too much - as you said.
I also agree with you about the spell triggers/sequencers/contingencies. I would use two in defence and one in offence if I were a lonely mage.

About the resting. Well, resting a lot in an inn is not chessy to me - that's more like common sence. If I were a solo mage with most of my spells used, I would rest - that's for sure.
And if I were a knight with a broken sword I would get a new one ASAP.
But taking "advantage" of resting undesturbed in a hostile area/dungeon, because the game has something scripted there, so it won't summon monsters is too much for my roleplaying taste. (E.g in Firkraggs dungeon at the brigde with the Air elemental and well)
But still: it's a game, and if you know you can't beat a certain opponent because you've used all what you've got, then I don't see why you shouldn't try and rest. What's worse: getting killed by the end monster because you didn't try and rest, or getting killed while ambushed at sleep so you thought you could beat the end monster?
Still, Roleplaying, I would probably get out of the dungeon and try resting someplace else.
If that made any sense at all.

-Sylvanerian

[Xyx]

Running around fully prepped got boring quickly, so I stopped doing that about halfway Chapter 2. After that, I'd keep going until I had exhausted my supplies of spells and item charges.

I'd run around unprepared, and when I got into serious trouble, I'd break out Mislead and run away to prep (if that isn't what Mislead was meant for, then I don't know what), or fire a triple Skull Trap sequencer to end the fight right there. No need to prep if a fight is over before it even starts, so why put anything else in that sequencer?

I'd cast Project Image when entering a big new area, and have it summon Skeleton Warriors or Invisible Stalkers. These things last for 8 hours, so there is no real reason to wait with the summoning.

As for resting... Invisibility lasts for 24 hours, and the game is packed with scrolls, potions and rings that make you invisible. Would it be cheesy to rest in a dungeon while invisible? Usually, only the boss creatures see through it, and they don't go around patrolling their dungeon. They have minions to do that.

[Obsidian]

Right now, Im Roleplaying a Solo Cerebral Knight through TDD, and my, that is tough. Fortunately, he levels up quickly, though I must admit, I miss potions of superior healing. I just recently picked up The Carysomer and have been using the the tuigan bow for quite some time. Right now I'm wearing Firkrag, wielding the car, the tuigan bow (I miss the quiver that gives unlimited arrows) and the Axe of resistance, which, imho, is one sweet mother ******* weapon. 10 percent to everything and +2 to all saves, added on the the paladins bonus, thats a +4 to all saves. GREAT STUFF.

About resting in the dungeons, bah, a true knight is afraid of no evil, and sleeps where he chooses. Anything attacks me, HACK HACK, gulp. Done. Easy. Right now, Im heading off the the planar prison to get me some boots o' speed.

There have been however, some EXCEDINGLY tough battles, and I have seen the death movie a fair amount.
Oh ya, and I pick up the NPC's for their quest only, seeing as how I'm a paladin and therefore must go around helping everyone.

[Littiz]

It seems everyone can have his own interpretation of the game, and his own
means to make it more interesting or difficult. I realize I'm a neofit here...
you've given me some new ideas.
Yet my admiration goes to those brave enough
to try a never-dying game!
This I would classify very nearly impossible!
But if you DO die, what happens?
Do you just give up, and restart from the beginning???

[Littiz]

mhhh, I must be a bit confused, I miss the message of the guy who's playing without deaths, must be somewhere else...
anyway, thanx for your replays!