Most Useless Spells

[Amran_X_Kaiser]

I thought it showed people in the dark.

But I stand by the BG 1 improvement on line of sight that the helm or ring of infravision gave - largely because either of those items did extend the line of sight whilst the spell or ability differs.

If the spell and ability did the same thing then it would be useful, although Oracle or Wizards Eye are developed on this it does seem that Infravision is the closest useless spell that has been discussed in this thread.

[Lark]

About chill touch:
I think that chill touch has actually, under very special and rare circumstances some use. It is a weapon spell that creates an item in your weapon slots, which does very minor damage. But this item is at the same time unenchanted AND does elemental (cold) damage. So it can pierce at the same time protection of magic weapons and stoneskin. The only other weapons that are capable of this trick are the crossbow of searing, the firetooth crossbow and gesen's bow, all of which are missile weapons, loaded with unenchanted ammunition. Chill touch remains as the only melee weapon that can pull this stunt.

User Unfriendly writes in his cheese guide (link) about killing Kuroisan with the crossbow of searing and unenchanted ammo punching simultaneously through PfmW and Stoneskin (If you want a detailed explanation of the process read the Cheese Guide). Since Kensai->Mages cannot use missile weapons they have to rely on chilltouch in this case if they want to make use of this weakness. Apart from that, this would be the only possibility for pure mages/sorcerors as well, as they can't use crossbows and bows, but lacking fighting capabilities it might not be a very wise move going toe to toe with Kuroisan.

Other than that I see no use for chill touch and I'd like to qote Xyx' spell reference (link) about this spell: Chill Touch
The worst kind of spell; useless and puts the caster in danger. You have to roll to hit, the target gets a save and even if it works this hardly does anything. Avoid like the plague.
I can only recommend the Spell Reference by Xyx. For all who wonder whether certain spells are useful or not, it may be worthwhile checking out Xyx' opinion on it.

[Amran_X_Kaiser]

'Not to be confused with melee spells (no Hit Roll is needed here), although attack spells with range Touch are nearly as dangerous to the caster. Being rather frail, pure Mages and Sorcerers should stay away from Touch attack spells. Priests and Fighter/Mages have the armor and Hit Points needed to use these spells to full effect.'

Not exactly useless. Using the spell alone may lead to the caster being attacked, but couple any magical melee power available to the mage - phantom blade, black blade of disaster with either tenser's transformation and/or improved haste and your mage will be able to go melee with an advantage, not to mention still being able to cast mage spells.

Xyx's opinions are relevant but it also maybe worthwhile judging for yourself - ie playing BG2 with the spell memorized and trying it out.

[Lark]

Dear Amran X Kaiser,

since you recommend to me it might be worth my while judging for myself, i.e. playing the game with the respective spell memorized and trying it out ingame, i feel obliged to answer and to recommend to you the same, trying things out.

Please try the following:
1. Play the game, memorize tensers transformation, try the spell out and try if you will still be able to cast spells from your spellbook - you won't. Do you really want to claim, that after casting TT you will 'still be able to cast mage spells'?

2. Play the game, memorize Chill Touch, Phantom Blade and Black Blade of Desaster, and try if you will be able to have either Chill Touch and Phantom Blade active at the same time, or if you will be able to have Chill Touch and Black Blade of Desaster active at the same time - you will neither. Do you suppose, that the usefulness of Chill Touch can be enhanced by using it in conjunction with another 'melee spell', either Phantom Blade or BBoD?

3. Play the game, memorize Chill Touch, try the spell out, then switch to your inventory and try to unequip your weapon(s) - You will get the feedback: 'Magic weapon in use.' Since you quote the entry under 'touch spells' form the the spell reference instead of the entry under 'melee spells', it seems as if you were of the opinion that Chill Touch is a 'touch spell' and no 'melee spell'. (For clarification: Examples for touch spells: Vampire Touch, Maze, Imprisonment, Heal; Examples for Melee Spells: Phantom Blade, BBoD, Chill Touch, Harm.)

Sincerely Yours,
Lark

[Amran_X_Kaiser]

Wow I didn't realise you'd take it so personally as to make the thread directed at me. My previous posted wasn't directed at you however, so if you have a beef with me then post a private message to me as Fable doesn't like squabbling in the threads.

As for the post I think your misinterpretating what I said.

I didn't recommend the order as to which the spells should be cast. I spell trigger spells that limit a persons ability to offset the disadvantages - TT, IH and PB for example.

As for not being able to cast spells - quickslots or innate abilities are still available to the caster as far as I know (if not please clarify) so you should be able to cast spells provided you have equipped the necessary means to do so.

Also; I recommended combining TT or IH WITH any of the following; BBoD, PB or CT - NOT to combine the melee orientated spells altogether - the outcome of that battle would be quickly over when trying it BG2.

I am man enough to admit that I may have quoted the wrong paragraph by Xyx but that doesn't mean much. The form of which the attack is made is the same - you have to get up close and personal whilst TT would aid in the THACO department.

Also that last note - thanks for the clarification even though it seems rather trivial - it wasn't an opinion - just a relevant passage that I felt was a useful addition, although it seems your making my opinion up for me - if it was an opinion - I hardly see what commenting about another's users opinion is going to do for this thread even if you disagree with it.

[mr_sir]

If you cast a spell that gives you a melee attack, such as chill touch, you still have access to your other spells and your inventory. The only thing you cannot change is your currently equipped weapon (due to it now being magical). There is no reason why another spell cannot be cast while the melee spell is still active, although I haven't personally tried this.

Using a sequence of melee spells (I think this is what Amran was meaning more than having them all active at the same time) in battle can quickly turn it in your favour and I agree with Amran on his suggestions. It is true however that Tensers Transformation disables your spells but this does not mean you cannot cast extra spells before using Tensers Transformation

[Lark]

@Amran X Kaiser
Since you asked for clarification: TT disables your spells and innate abilities. You will however be able to use your quickslot items.

@mr_sir

If you cast a spell that gives you a melee attack, such as chill touch, you still have access to your other spells and your inventory.

Nobody denied that.

The only thing you cannot change is your currently equipped weapon (due to it now being magical).

Nobody denied that.

There is no reason why another spell cannot be cast while the melee spell is still active[...]

Nobody denied that.

[...]although I haven't personally tried this.

When in doubt, try it out. But you are right, you will be able to cast spells from your spell book (or from scrolls), the only melee spell that will block your spellcasting (at least from the book, not from scrolls) is Seeking Sword.

Using a sequence of melee spells (I think this is what Amran was meaning more than having them all active at the same time) in battle can quickly turn it in your favour[...]

That's a bit generalized.

[...]and I agree with Amran on his suggestions. It is true however that Tensers Transformation disables your spells but this does not mean you cannot cast extra spells before using Tensers Transformation.

Again, nobody doubted that.

On Topic:
I did not doubt that Tensers Transformation or Improved Haste are powerful spells. I just doubt the usefulness of chill touch, even if enhanced by the aforementioned spells. I quoted the spell reference, because I share it's opinion in this matter, and - having played the game with the spells memorized and tried things out - couldnt express it better. Actually, I did find an (albeit tiny) use for Chill Touch - it pierces PfmW and Stoneskin at the same time.

For completeness, from the spell reference:

On Melee Spells:

Melee Spells
Spells that create an item with which the caster has to hit enemies are mostly worthless. Pure wizards and Sorcerers have pathetic combat abilities and will not last long anywhere near the frontline, so they should avoid these spells like the plague. Fighter/Mages and priests are much more durable and have better THAC0. They could make use of these spells, were it not that most are not worth the effort of casting if you have a good weapon. Spells that enhance the caster's melee capabilities are also best reserved for priests and Fighter/Mage types, as only they are suitable for melee in the first place.

On Chill Touch:

Chill Touch
The worst kind of spell; useless and puts the caster in danger. You have to roll to hit, the target gets a save and even if it works this hardly does anything. Avoid like the plague.

with kind regards,
Lark

[snoopyofour]

I'm not prepared to say what I think the most useless spell is, though it is probably infravision (which is funny when you think about how useful it ought to be, I mean wouldn't invisibility and hide in shadows be sort of null and void with it), but i do have a candidate for my favorite spell, or rather spell combo. I like to play with a shapeshifter and sorceror and one move I would like to try, somebody do this I don't have my game installed, for powerful single monsters (dragons in particular) is to cast a few summoning spells with your druid (they don't have to be high level ones, the critters don't need to last too long) then cast energy blades and have your mage cast improved haste on your druid. that would leave his number of attacks at 20. There may be monsters out there that wouldn't die from that, but I don't think I've run into any.

[Amran_X_Kaiser]

Close mr_sir but my meaning was

Try to Trigger the following:

Improved Haste
Tensers Transformation
AND ONE melee spell

Until this combination is applied then you still have access to your mage spells or scrolls. Afterwards you can enter melee with still being able to use quickslots - last resort spells that I use incase ever needing to enter melee combat or running out of spells.

Infravision does seem to be the spell most likely to be classed as useless.

Snoopyofour - you can also do that with a high level mage/sorcerer with summons ranging from mordy swords to fiends.

[Da_venom]

c'mon guys were getting a bit off the topic here

chill touch has some use

and is certainly not useless

the most useless spell was infravision
and that kind of ended this thread