Male NPCs

[Numinor]

Don't forget that male Gnomes can romance Aerie (think of winged baby Gnomes ), and why shouldn't there be some romance for "the small folk" ?

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by dragon wench

I think anyone who attempted an Edwin mod would have to handle it with a lot of care and sensitivity. If done properly, I think it could be a very complex and compelling story. I'm not saying there should not be any humour, but I agree with VonDondu, it should encompass more than a kinky S&M relationship...

If you read the thread I was referring to, you'll see that someone has actually attempted such a MOD. I haven't seen it for myself (I don't know if it has even been finished), so I can't comment on it. In the thread, we mostly talked about our own perceptions of Edwin. I said that I could envision him as a character like Henry Higgins in Pygmalion. I do think there should be plenty of black humor and jokes at Edwin's expense, but I would like to see such a romance treated in a serious way, with plenty of sympathy for Edwin in the end. Fable countered with the argument that Edwin is incapable of self-examination. I don't want to put words into Fable's mouth, but if I remember correctly, to him, Edwin is the stereotypical "evil wizard" (like you would see in comics, I guess), although he bumbles a lot and ends up being laughable. If that's the characterization for Edwin, I don't think a "romance" (if such a thing were possible) would be much more than an opportunity to laugh at Edwin's expense. The other alternative I remember, which Uncle Scratchy suggested, is that Edwin would rebuff anyone who was nice to him but fall in love with someone who was mean to him. Then they'd have lots of kinky sex. I'm probably missing something, but the point is that we all had different interpretations.

[Lady Pirate]

On Mods: I should check out the other romance mods (like Chloe and Kelsey)

On Edwin: I agree with Dragon Wench and Vondondu on this one. It was rather sad that Edwin only had a negative (if funny) closing epilogue. Edwin is somewhat the 1 dimensional arrogant evil power-hungry wizard, and as funny as that is I was dissapointed in the lack of real character development for him. Recall the first exchange in BG II between Edwin and the pc:

"Edwin!! Don't you remember me?"
"The past hardly matters. ..."

It seems to me, that this and several other lines, could if written properly, play out some depth in Edwin's 1-dimensional character. Is it only me, or could this line hint at some regret, some acknowledgement of a kind of friendship between Edwin and the pc? I would be very interested to see what some one would do with it. If properly written it could be very interesting. I would have a go at it myself, if only I could figure out the technical aspects of mod building.

[dragon wench]

Originally Posted by Lady Pirate

On Edwin: I agree with Dragon Wench and Vondondu on this one. It was rather sad that Edwin only had a negative (if funny) closing epilogue. Edwin is somewhat the 1 dimensional arrogant evil power-hungry wizard, and as funny as that is I was dissapointed in the lack of real character development for him. Recall the first exchange in BG II between Edwin and the pc:

"Edwin!! Don't you remember me?"
"The past hardly matters. ..."

It seems to me, that this and several other lines, could if written properly, play out some depth in Edwin's 1-dimensional character. Is it only me, or could this line hint at some regret, some acknowledgement of a kind of friendship between Edwin and the pc? I would be very interested to see what some one would do with it. If properly written it could be very interesting. I would have a go at it myself, if only I could figure out the technical aspects of mod building.

It really seems to me that Edwin's character would probably have to be modified a bit in a romance version of him, because as everyone has said, his original personality does not leave a lot of room for much depth or dimension. I suppose this would not be entirely out of step, since many people (including his creator) admit that Solaufein as a joinable NPC is a departure in many ways from the individual you briefly encounter in the unmodded version. Though of course... Edwin always has been joinable, and he has a long history that begins in BG1.. so this probably makes messing with his character slightly a bit more difficult. He would need to undergo some kind of realistic and believable epiphany..... perhaps Minsc could be involved in some way??? Or maybe even Valygar and the Planar Sphere quest????

Just my thoughts though, I could well be way off the mark

And yes, I do think that remark about the past does have a lot of potential for development.. it is certainly ambiguous enough in its meaning.... It almost seems to suggest a sort of bitterness that relates not only to the PC but perhaps a whole host of other issues. Maybe he is even trying to forget or avoid the past for some reason???

I know what you mean about the mod building, I'm reasonably sure I could create the dialogue and develop plot and personality.. but the technical stuff completely eludes me.. *sigh*

[fable]

To me, Edwin has always seemed the most immature possible candidate for your NPC party. Edwin's all about infantile needs: want, take, have. He sees everyone around him as objects for manipulation; nobody exists as a person. The quote you gave glances at part of the problem:

"Edwin!! Don't you remember me?"
"The past hardly matters. ..."

For Edwin, desire rules, and his focus is entirely on a future in which he achieves one goal, and immediately craves the next. He never analyzes his own past actions, or his effects on others. He is bright and ingenious, but those very qualities cause him to improperly assume those who don't reveal those characteristics are necessarily fools. Aerie, for all her innocence, has ten times his understanding. Even Korgan snubs Edwin. Korgan's reality is built upon experience, troubling as it may be. In Edwin, he recognizes someone who plays at life, and will never learn from it. Just my two cents.

I'd be very interested in a mod that changes that.

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by Lady Pirate

"Edwin!! Don't you remember me?"
"The past hardly matters. ..."

It seems to me, that this and several other lines, could if written properly, play out some depth in Edwin's 1-dimensional character. Is it only me, or could this line hint at some regret, some acknowledgement of a kind of friendship between Edwin and the pc?

In my opinion, that's just Edwin's way of saying, "Don't bore me with your idiotic sentimentality. I have work for you to do (though I doubt a monkey such as you is capable)." He doesn't care about friendship; he only cares about how he can use you to further his schemes.

The thing that interests me is, what if Edwin, in spite of himself, found himself irresistably attracted to a strong, dominant woman who wouldn't put up with his crap--perhaps a charismatic, powerful Bhaalspawn? What if a woman like that turned his whole world upside-down? It would be utterly alien to him, of course, and he wouldn't know what to do with himself. He still might try to push her around, but it might not be so easy for him to brush her off.

Fable and I went back and forth about this before, and I don't mean to argue with his interpretation of Edwin. I think he's essentially right. I just think it would be interesting if your own character could be the one who triggers something in Edwin that he has never felt before. His reaction would still be "want, take, have," but since you're in control (not him), he CAN'T "take" and he can't necessarily "have". That could create all sorts of insecurity, anxiety, and (dare I say it?) heartache. To make it work, we'd have to assume that he became fixated upon your character and couldn't let go. To me, that's not implausible if Edwin is actually human. I guess that's where the difference lies in our interpretations. If you enjoy treating him as a cartoon character (and he certainly is funny if you look at him the way Fable describes him), why change him?

[Lady Pirate]

@ Vondondu: I agree, friendship was quite the wrong word. I think Dragon Wench expressed it more accurately-that that comment seems to be somewhat bitter. Of course, Edwin is a generally bitter person, but that bitterness could mean that the past, or what has happened since the pc last saw Edwin, is for some reason painful or unpleasant to talk about or remember. While not exactly a romantic overture, if this was to be interpreted this way, it could certainly mark some depth in Edwin.

[Thrain]

IIRC this is like the drizzt encounter. you could kill edwin in bg1 just as you could help him. i believe it was a way for characters (and players) who had not been through bg1 to make their own minds up about the thayvian one.

[Raumoheru]

Maybe Edwin thinks the past hardly matters cuz he is ashamed of what he has done and does not want to think about it so he puts up a barrier arund himslef. he is like a callus, hard on the outside soft on the inside.

[fable]

Originally Posted by VonDondu

If you enjoy treating him as a cartoon character (and he certainly is funny if you look at him the way Fable describes him), why change him?

With respect, I wouldn't call Edwin an exaggerated, or cartoon character. I've known quite a few people like him over time; and I suspect many of our public officials are very similar, though they "cover" better. Edwin's writers deliberately left him uncovered--including all those wonderfully sarcastic remarks under his breath--so we could get a laugh. But in essence, Edwin is three-dimensional. He's just not very psychologically pleasant.

That said, I agree with you that it would be interesting to have a mod which shakes up Edwin over time, gradually causing him to grow and develop. It would have to be done very carefully, for it could easily slip over into cliched mawkishness. But if done well, I think Edwin is quite redeemeable.

[Lady Pirate]

@ Thrain: I know Drizzt does, but I wonder if the other characters have different reactions if you killed them in BGI.

@ Raumoheru: lol. Just like a donut.

@ Fable: I agree, although it could ruin Edwin's character if not properly done, I would still be very curious to see a mod that attempted it.

As a side note: it appears that Jan is winning the poll, just one vote ahead of Edwin. Someone voted for Yoshimo: you know, that could be interesting, since future developments would "complicate" it. The only characters not voted for by anyone are Cernd, Keldorn, and Minsc.

[FireLighter]

Probably because, Minsc is psycho (thinks his hamster is from space), Keldorn is a freak, and Cernd is a tree hugger...
Buncha panzies if u ask me

EDIT: Keldorn a VERY powerful freak weilding Carsomyr +5!

[Raumoheru]

but Keldorn is also married and cant cheat on his wife (tho she did on him )

[dragon wench]

Originally Posted by Raumoheru

but Keldorn is also married and cant cheat on his wife (tho she did on him )

Not to mention that he is a paladin... I really can't see paladins cheating on their partners somehow...

[Lady Pirate]

FireLighter: That's "Carsomyr +5 Wielding Freak." He does not wield a freak.

Well, thats true (I agree that Keldorn probably wouldn't cheat on his wife), but then, if everyone in the forgotten realms was honorable, Jaheira probably wouldn't have started a romance dialogue with my character ONE day after finding her husband's corpse.