Kensai/thief !!!!

[MordorMan]

Hello!

I can not hold it any longer, I have got to tell you that a Kensai/thief is a great character to play a regular (no solo or multiplayer) game of BG2 with. Mine was dualled at level 9, it took very little time to get the thief level above this. Now he's an expert dual wielder and a katana grandmaster. Wielding CF and the DZ blade, he does great damage, especially when backstabbing. It is fun to play with because you can scout ahead and set traps or backstab enemies with your main character. Being a fighter, he's better equipped to walk in the front line searching for traps.

I used to play a half-orc barbarian, but the K/T is much better and much more fun. The ability to take out wizards before their defensive spell triggers go off is great (use the pause when enemy sighted option if you have a neautral enemy that goes red after a dialogue). Instant death some very tough opposition!

Another advantage is that you don't have to have Jan, Imoen, Nalia or Yoshimo in your party just to have a thief. I used Jan a while before I got to a decent thief level but then gave him the boot in favour of Haer d'Alis.

There are only two drawbacks to the K/T. One, they have a low AC. This is not a great problem if you let a heavy armoured character attack first in all-out melee combat so that the K/T won't be targeted by enemies. Furthermore, enchantments like bark skin or spirit armour help a lot, as do potions like the potion of defense (you can get those for free because the K/T can steal from merchants). The other thing is you can not use missile weapons, so you are likely to stand around with your thumb up your *** in shoot-outs.

IIUC, these drawbacks disappear in TOB when thieves will be able to use any item. I'm curious as to what that means exactly..

Anyway, I think Kensai/Thieves are great and I am posting this to give this dual class combo some more positive publicity.

Are you convinced?

MM

[koz-ivan]

iirc, kensi can use thrown weapons, i.e. azuredge, rifthome, firetooth & boomerang dagger (& darts?)

[Xyx]

Does the dual need more publicity? But, really, it is very effective.

I personally keep Nalia around because she's a very good Mage

And don't forget Kensai can still use thrown weapons.

[MordorMan]

Yeah, you're right. A Kensai/Thief can throw stuff. I mistook missile weapons for ranged weapons. You see, it helps discussing these things. At least, it helps me.

As for publicity, kensai/mages and dual clasing in general have gotten a lot of it, that is true, but I thought the K/T could use some more. I mean, this combo isn't even described in riverwind's guide!

MM

[Vehemence]

Kensai/Thief is a very good class. I loved it when I played as one. A nicely timed Kai, and a well placed backstab will really make this character shine.

However, it is in my opinion that the Assassin is superior in every element except for the natural fighting ability which the kensai has such as THAC0 and Hit Points. The x7 backstab is far greater than a kai backstab x5 and espeically with a critical hit, an assassin's x7 backstab coupled with some nicely added poison will eliminate most foes.

Assassins also have the advantage of being able to wear bracers and armour. Greatly increasing their AC and IMO improving their overall durability in a fight.

I still love the Kensai/Thief though for it's fun and general effectiveness in a lot of fights, I just find that the assassin was much more fun and overall, a deadlier player in the game.

One other point, about thieves use anything ability vs kensai's innate unusability of ranged weapons. I don't think this would override the kensai's lack of being able to use an item. Otherwise he/she would have been able to use ranged weapons when you dualed to a thief. I could be wrong though.

[jace4ever]

Can a Kensai thief wear armour?
Does the natural armor class of the kensai improves any further?

[Vehemence]

Question: Can a Kensai thief wear armour?

Answer: No. Before the patch, the Kensai/Thief could wear Shadow Armour but that was a bug.

Question: Does the natural armor class of the kensai improves any further?

Answer: No. Only on creation does the Kensai receive -2 to AC.

[Xyx]

Bit of math: Both characters use Celestial Fury to backstab, holding Crom Faeyr in their off-hand.

Both:
+14 Strenght 25
+3 Celestial Fury enchantment

Kensai-Thief:
+3 Kensai bonus (level 9)
+3 Grand Mastery bonus
10 Celestial Fury with Kai
x 5 Backstab multiplier

Assassin:
+2 Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise
5.5 Celestial Fury (average)
x 7 Backstab multiplier

Gets us 165 damage for the Kensai-Thief, and an average of 171.5 damage for the Assassin.

Dual the Kensai at level 15 and he gets 175, but can only be done in ToB.

Pretty close, I would say. Of course, several other factors come into play. THAC0 and number of attacks, for example, but that gets tricky.

[GrimReaper]

Actually, I don't think an assassin can dual weild without a negative modifier THAC0. Therefore, you have to take that into consideration and take away that extra 14 damage. Also, do apply the strength damage before or after the multiplier?

[Xyx]

I don't think an assassin can dual weild without a negative modifier THAC0. Therefore, you have to take that into consideration and take away that extra 14 damage.

Strength 25 gives a +7 THAC0 bonus, so that should compensate.

do apply the strength damage before or after the multiplier?

Uhh... Good one. I did apply it before the multiplier, but I'm not sure anymore if I should. Damages would be 109 for the Kensai Thief and 87 for the Assassin otherwise. That still includes the other damage bonuses.

Does anyone know exactly which components get multiplied? There's Strength, Kensai, Enchantment and item bonuses...