High Intelligence - any use?

[Legin]

I know intelligence is the prime requisite for the mage and that it is obviously a factor in Dual classing. But is there any real advantage in a character (including a mage) having an Intelligence above 18?

[Faust]

Originally Posted by Legin

I know intelligence is the prime requisite for the mage and that it is obviously a factor in Dual classing. But is there any real advantage in a character (including a mage) having an Intelligence above 18?

For a wizard (not a sorceror), intelligence determines spell memorization ability chance (19 is about 95%, to 18 being 85%), total number of spells you can learn (at 19 you can learn all the spells, at 18 you can learn most), and spell level you can use (with either 18 or 19 you can learn 9th level spells).

Bards receive some effects from intelligence as well.

For non-intelligence charachters, the only advantages of having a high intelligence is the slight boost to the lore ability it gives, and the added defence against mindflayers (who drain intelligence). But, again, in this case there's not a lot of advantages to having a high intelligence.

[Legin]

Ok 19 it is then. But anything over 19 seems unneccessary. This seems a little unbalanced when compared with Wisdom which provides additional spells to Clerics (the Higher the Wisdom, the higher the level of the bonus spells). Fighters see the benefit of trying to get as high a STR as possible, (increases in damage / to hit -although not amazing at least its something!).

My point is that there seems to be more of a real incentive to increase the other attributes to as high as possible, but INT kinda fizzles out at 19.

Is there something I've misunderstood or some benefit I haven't seen?

[Philos]

Besides Lore I believe high intelligence also adds pluses to certain saving throws (spells I think, maybe others) and to checks for illusions and secret doors.
However, you can get around the learning % and the total number of spells you are allowed to learn (as long as you have at least 15 intelligence) by using potions of genius. They boost your intelligence by 4 so your learning % goes up to 96 to 99% depending on what you started at. Once a spell is in your spell book it does not go away. I have Nalia and when she hit her max number of spells for a spell level (or levels) I saved up all the scrolls she hadn't been allowed to learn yet but possible could. Bought a potion a genius (have found a couple on my own as well) and she went to work. The potion last for a few hours so there is no rush. Presently she has 20-1st, 19-2nd, 19-3rd, 18-4th, and 19-5th level spells in her spell book. I will probably never use half of those spells but since learning them provides experience points and they don't go away it seemed like a good idea.

Haven't gotten far enough to know if you can use the potion to let you memorize a 9th spell. Only possible way I can think of for that to work would be to take the potion just before resting and see if a 9th level slot appears.

[Legin]

@Philos

I wasn't aware that it affected rolls for saves vs spells / detect illusions. Are you sure about this? I've never seen anything in the maunal about it - was it left out accidently or is it from the D&D rules?

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Originally Posted by Faust

For a wizard (not a sorceror), intelligence determines spell memorization ability chance (19 is about 95%, to 18 being 85%), total number of spells you can learn (at 19 you can learn all the spells, at 18 you can learn most), and spell level you can use (with either 18 or 19 you can learn 9th level spells).

Bards receive some effects from intelligence as well.

For non-intelligence charachters, the only advantages of having a high intelligence is the slight boost to the lore ability it gives, and the added defence against mindflayers (who drain intelligence). But, again, in this case there's not a lot of advantages to having a high intelligence.

Correction: For this game only, Sorcs use Int.

[Faust]

Originally Posted by Galuf the Dwarf

Correction: For this game only, Sorcs use Int.

For all aspects of their spell casting? I thought they were a charisma based class.

[Coot]

I'd be pretty surprised if intelligence had any influence on saving throws. Maybe Philos confused intelligence and wisdom? Wisdom was supposed to help out in the saving throws dept. but that never got implemented in BG, 1 or 2. It was however in Icewind Dale 2 with it's 3e rules.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Faust

For all aspects of their spell casting? I thought they were a charisma based class.

Not in the BG series.

[Faust]

Originally Posted by fable

Not in the BG series.

Thanks for the refresher course. I was relying on the 3E version of the class and some misconceptions I had when playing with the Kelsey mod (as Kelsey has a very low intelligence and yet progresses fairly normallY). Yeah, it seems that in BG2 Sorceror's spell casting ability is not tied to any stat. Well, I believe intelligence is still required in order to determine if they can read/use scrolls. But no stat seems to alter or grant bonuses to their spell casting progression. Or at least that's what I get from creating 2 sorceror's (one with high, one with low, int) and,initially, from this discussion thread .

[Philos]

Legin,

I may be confusing this with wisdom, been a while since I cracked the 2nd Ed books. But even if it is in the books, that's no guarantee it's in the game 'eh. Seemed logical since BG uses the 2nd Ed rules.
I might even be thinking back to 1st Ed.
Still you can have a decent mage without an 18 intelligence with a little help from potions. Nalia is working out fine for me and she has a 17. I also used Aerie for a while and I think she only has a 16.

[TinyMage]

I always give my characters at least 16 intellegence if I can. This means I can take 3 hits from a mind flayer and still not be dead.

I can't understand people that take intellegence down to 3 in order to boost other stats. So what if your guy has 18 in every other stat, their not godly if a mind flayer chunks you in 1 hit.....

Also if your a theif with UAI if you don't have 16 int you cannot equip the golem book.

[Philos]

Each has their own style of course. Personally I always leave intelligence at least around average 9-10 if they don't have a great need for it. I have never run it down to 3 either. In real life a person with a 3 couldn't function well enough to be an adventurer. You really don't have to give characters a high intelligence just to survive the mind flayers, that's giving up some crucial points that might be better used in other areas such as con or dex (IMHO). "Most" monsters are easy if you use the right tactics. I don't want to get off topic so I won't elaborate here.

[masteralef]

There are also a few dialog options that it affects. For example, in Chapter 5, there's a mention of a creature and based on your intelligence you can give different names for the creature. I don't remember off the top of my head which are affected by wisdom, by intelligence, and by charisma, but a particularly amusing fellow guarding a chest can be convinced to let you look inside without fighting, and a sequence that can upset your romance partners can also be changed. They're all rather minor compared to how it works in PST or NWN, though, and none of them require anything above...I think 16, but I could be wrong.

[JJComo]

You would need an intelligence score of 20 to gain the +5 bonus to int. checks.
In my dealings with Illithid, don't they always drain you to int. of three (if you fail the saving throw) and then the second failed saving throw kills you?

J