Which PC would be more fun? (BG1 to BG2)

[galtzaiLe]

I must say that everyday i get more and more into the D&D world (or at least into the D&D based games for that matter), and i find it a bit overwhelming and extremely fun.

Yesterday, after VonDondu's advice i started my Fighter -> Cleric. Everything went just fine until i met an big BIG unfriendly ogre. I was slaughtered with no mercy.
I said "it's ok, let's load" but... oh well, i was so exited playing that i didn't save not only once hehe, so i have to start once again. But before i do

So, here i am looking some advice on with PC would be more fun (i don't care if it's average or good or whatever, just fun) to run through the whole saga.

This are the list of PCs that i want to play at least one time through the whole saga:

• Fighter to Cleric: Play BG1 as a Fighter and the dual to Cleric in BG2 (this is like my PC was going to be)
• Cleric to Mage: Play as Cleric BG1 then dual (or multi?) to Mage in BG2. Sounds fun to be able to cast offensive spells and some aid too
• Thief: I'll play this with EasyTutu, and maybe i'll dual (or multi) to Kensai

Is there any other combination that you would suggest? I'm not in the power gaming, but in the other hand i don't like to play an impossible char. Something that actually can complete the game and at the same time is fun to play with.

Thanks for any advice or suggestion you can give me, i'm looking forward to play this game more than once in a different approach each time!

Thanks!!

[galraen]

Two points, although you might not have made a save, there should be an autosave you could use for your first character.

Second, you should go Kensai -> thief, not the other way around IMO.

[galtzaiLe]

Originally Posted by galraen

Two points, although you might not have made a save, there should be an autosave you could use for your first character.

I just realized. When i died i just closed the game, because as i didn't make a save didn't feel to keep playing at this very moment (didn't check for savegames, my bad).
Now i keep playing with my Fighter

Originally Posted by galraen

Second, you should go Kensai -> thief, not the other way around IMO.

I can do that because i'm planning play the thief with Tutu, but why is that? Because the HP? I assume that i should multiclass it, shouldn't i?

Thanks!!

[Crenshinibon]

You cannot dual class or multiclass with a kit present. You have to START as the kit because you can only dual into base, non kit classes.

Don't expect to beat the ogre right off the bat, only with a thief type as you can backstab and run.

I suggest a bard (blade). It has all capabilities of a fighter (only to a lesser degree), a mage (it gains levels quicker but can't cast as many spells later on not to mention it can backstab and pick pockets but is unable to hide.

[VonDondu]

I know which ogre you're talking about. (Don't we all?) Ogres are pretty tough compared to other monsters in BG1, and even a 6th level Fighter should not try to fight more than two of them at once in melee combat without a lot of protection.

However, a couple of 1st level characters can kill the ogre without too much difficulty. Have one of them get the ogre's attention and then run away. While the ogre is chasing the first character in circles, have the second character attack him with a ranged weapon. If the ogre comes after the second character, run away so the ogre will chase him or her, and have your first character attack with a ranged weapon.

This tactic is also effective when you fight a dragon in BG2.

[galraen]

Apart from the points Crenshinibon made, there are other advantages later in the game relating to High Level Abilities (HLAs), one crucial thieves one in particular, Use Any Item (UAI).

As you only get the HLAs relating to the second class with a dual classed character, if you go thief -> Fighter, then you get the fighter HLAs, and therefore won't get UAI.

@ Crenshinibon: How surprising that you recommend a Blade. You really should get that obsessive compulsive disorder looked into.

[Crenshinibon]

Well, they ARE a versatile class, able to finish the game with much ease. The fighter/mage/thief would be their rival, perhaps only having the backstab ability and weapon specialization.

In my opinion, both classes would trump the ordinary fighter through buffing spells, although in terms of those, there isn't much of interest at seventh and eight level for the latter class.

The Use Any Item ability is also gained by bards, who gain (the extremely and overpowered) traps, without the need of the Set Traps skill. Also, having a high Pick Pockets skill (as all bards do) is a great way to make money and get free stuff through shoplifting (in both games).

galraen: Now now, it's just that I'm extremely passionate, and a good class for a beginner player. If we were going by cheap characters, it would once again be the Wild Mage. Also, while I view the Kensai/Cleric as fun, I think that for a newbie it's not an option (especially since it requires you to solo).

[galtzaiLe]

Originally Posted by galraen

Apart from the points Crenshinibon made, there are other advantages later in the game relating to High Level Abilities (HLAs), one crucial thieves one in particular, Use Any Item (UAI).

As you only get the HLAs relating to the second class with a dual classed character, if you go thief -> Fighter, then you get the fighter HLAs, and therefore won't get UAI.

Originally Posted by Crenshinibon

You cannot dual class or multiclass with a kit present. You have to START as the kit because you can only dual into base, non kit classes.

I didn't know that, thanks for that info! Everyday i learn something new about this game, D&D (particularly AD&D), and it seems that it will never stop hahah

So, it seems that it's going to be Fighter to Thief, or just start as a Thief in BG2. Don't know yet, i'll figure out myself later (i'm not hurry on this one).

Originally Posted by Crenshinibon

I suggest a bard (blade). It has all capabilities of a fighter (only to a lesser degree), a mage (it gains levels quicker but can't cast as many spells later on not to mention it can backstab and pick pockets but is unable to hide.

Today i started a whole new party in IWD2 and included a Bard, because i never played one before. Despite the different ruleset, somehow i figure that i'll love the Bard class.
When you say Blade, do you mean all the way Blade or dual / multi at some point? It could be fun play with a Bard (Blade) all the way through.

Originally Posted by Crenshinibon

Don't expect to beat the ogre right off the bat, only with a thief type as you can backstab and run.

Originally Posted by VonDondu

I know which ogre you're talking about. (Don't we all?) Ogres are pretty tough compared to other monsters in BG1, and even a 6th level Fighter should not try to fight more than two of them at once in melee combat without a lot of protection.

I beat it the second time, but i must confess that i was very lucky. I face it with my Fighter in melee while Imoen was shooting arrows from the back, at the same time i was crossing my fingers hoping the Giant don't land a hit on me. Fortunately that didn't happen :P



Thanks all for your replies and advices!!!

[galraen]

My only beef with a Blade is that it requires micro-management, not necessarily something that a new player would want. (Actually I do have another major beef, but that would require a thread all of its own)

Why do you think a Kensai/Cleric requires you to solo Crenshinibon?

Bards can't dual or multi class in BG1 or BG2 by the way galtzaiLe. They are a fun class to play if you don't mind the hard graft though.

[Crenshinibon]

galraen:

By the time completes BG1, I think he should have the hang of it, as in my opinion, the first one is more difficult than the other two. What's the other problem with the Blade? The Freedom and Defensive Spin bit?

I'm sure you are familiar with my belief of dualing late, at early or mid twenties. Of course that would require you to get a good amount of experience. Although you should be able to reach max level with one or two other characters in your party.

galtzaiLe:

Well, I don't use mods, I can only reccomend characters based on my knowledge of the base classes from BG1 and of the kits in BG2. Just be aware of that.

IWD2 uses the 3.5E ruleset, so that bard is very different from the BG2 one. Bards are unable to multiclass our dualclass in the BG games, so I mean playing it all the way through.

Very lucky.

Ogres are one of the toughest creatures in BG1.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Crenshinibon

IWD2 uses the 3.5E ruleset, so that bard is very different from the BG2 one. Bards are unable to multiclass our dualclass in the BG games, so I mean playing it all the way through.

Bards and druids are more powerful under the 3.5 ruleset. That's no reason to avoid using them in the BG series, of course, because it's possible to win with any combination: one of the great aspects of the games. But if you're powerplaying, I don't think bards and druids are t the way to go.

Myself, I don't like the way blades are rooted in place, unless cheese is used to get around the rules. But that's just my taste. For similar reasons, some people swear by shapeshifting. I like Keldorn/Carsomyr for the dispelling and peekaboo aspects. It's all personal, based on the strategies we use in combat.

Combinations: I like kensai/mages, not because of the power (which is great), but because of the fun involved in having so many options available for the character in each fight.

It might be fun to consider something outrageous, like a wild mage (Easy Tutu) dualed to a cleric or a fighter.

[Crenshinibon]

The Bards seem more limited in IWDII, I mean they're not that strong without mix in classes, in my opinion at least.

I think that Blades are powerful characters through and through and they are easy for newbies to play because they are a single class (meaning no worries of dual classing or split experience) and they can do a bit of everything. I only rarely use Defensive Spin as my AC is high enough (Around -20) due to Spirit Armor, Tenser's, Blur and my other pieces of equipment. We're not even mentioning Mirror Image or Stoneskin there.

No, they are not *the* strongest, but one of, without cheesing at least, and in my opinion, they are very fun.

I tend to favor a Kensai/Mage as a fighter, taking advantage of the Kensai bonus (by dualing late), and using the GWW form with other buff spells attached.

[galtzaiLe]

Originally Posted by Crenshinibon

Well, I don't use mods, I can only reccomend characters based on my knowledge of the base classes from BG1 and of the kits in BG2. Just be aware of that.

So far I haven't installed any mode as well, and i'm not planing to do so before i finish the whole saga at least one time. That said, i can use well any advice from you ;)

Originally Posted by Crenshinibon

IWD2 uses the 3.5E ruleset, so that bard is very different from the BG2 one. Bards are unable to multiclass our dualclass in the BG games, so I mean playing it all the way through.

Originally Posted by fable

Bards and druids are more powerful under the 3.5 ruleset. That's no reason to avoid using them in the BG series, of course, because it's possible to win with any combination: one of the great aspects of the games. But if you're powerplaying, I don't think bards and druids are t the way to go.

I see, so no dual / multi class for the Bard or whatever kit related to it. In my book that could be good and bad at the same time: good because it can't go wrong, bad because you tear apart the possibilities of dual / multi classing (and the fun related to it). However, i think a Blade (or simply a Bard) would be a really fun class to play.

On a side not, i'm not a powergaming player (despite the fact that i roll the stats a few times to get something decent), so it won't be a problem i guess.

Originally Posted by fable

Combinations: I like kensai/mages, not because of the power (which is great), but because of the fun involved in having so many options available for the character in each fight.

I like the idea behind this kind of character (as matter of fact, battlemages are my favorite class in RPGs). However, i think i'll make one of this later, when i've finished the saga a couple of times (and possibly starting in BG2).
Is wise to dual or multi a character like this? I can see good a bad points for each option (ie, dual: more and stronger spells, multi: more kensai levels).


Thanks everyone for all the replies!!

Originally Posted by Crenshinibon

Ogres are one of the toughest creatures in BG1.

I realized that after it kick my arse xD

[Klorox]

Originally Posted by VonDondu

However, a couple of 1st level characters can kill the ogre without too much difficulty. Have one of them get the ogre's attention and then run away. While the ogre is chasing the first character in circles, have the second character attack him with a ranged weapon. If the ogre comes after the second character, run away so the ogre will chase him or her, and have your first character attack with a ranged weapon.

This tactic is also effective when you fight a dragon in BG2.

This tactic will serve you well for like 90% of BG1.

Originally Posted by Crenshinibon

galraen:

What's the other problem with the Blade? The Freedom and Defensive Spin bit?

IMHO, the problem with the Blade is that he doesn't function very well without spell protections. And even that is micromanaging for a new player to the game.

Originally Posted by fable

Bards and druids are more powerful under the 3.5 ruleset. That's no reason to avoid using them in the BG series, of course, because it's possible to win with any combination: one of the great aspects of the games. But if you're powerplaying, I don't think bards and druids are t the way to go.

Bards have a chance in a power group in BG1, since ID'ing items is such a pain, I like using an armored Bard with a bow and lots of wands.

In BG2, you need to go Blade though.

IMHO, Druids just aren't that good in BG2. They've got a few really nice spells, but I hate their weapon restrictions.

[Crenshinibon]

Amazingly enough, I never used the above tactic. I don't like ranged combat all that much.

Most of the time, you're able to get off without using them though. I'm sure any player will look through their spellbook or that of the stores when faced with a several time reload fight.

Klorox: If you haven't already, I suggest that you read "Bards With Wands" at the Sorcerer's Place.

The class is very close to the Fighter/Mage/Thief, and of course you wouldn't have that class combination wear armor, would you?