Perfect character

[LordTerror]

Originally Posted by Klorox

A 20 CON is +6 HP/level, one more than a 19 CON.

According to the BG1, ToSC, and SoA manuals, it's +5 HP/level. (ToB manual doesn't have the table included).

Originally Posted by Klorox

But remember, that multiclassed Dwarf will regenerate, which is impossible for any other character in BG1,

Actually, any character that has 19 or more constitution can regenerate. Humans can get 19 constitution early in the game, as the constitution book is easy to get.

Originally Posted by Klorox

will have much better saving throws (therefore will take less damage in the first place),

Yes, the saving throws are nice. Mages aren't really much of a problem though. This build hits 95% of the time (only critical misses actually miss vs. mages), does 20+ average damage per hit, and has boots of speed to get next to the mages quickly. Most mages die before they can even cast one spell.

Originally Posted by Klorox

and will have abilities from both classes the whole time.

Ya, this build isn't meant to be the perfect character to create, it's meant to be the perfect character once it is finished.

Originally Posted by Klorox

And when you import to BG2, he'll be a lot better when you import to BG2 (access to both HLA pools, will have more Attacks per Round after reaching level 13 as a Fighter).

Yea, this character isn't meant to be exported to BG2. A multi-class character isn't very good in BG2 because it can't use kits, though. You would be better off using a pure fighter for BG1, switching to Kensai in BG2 and dual classing (at level 24) to theif (level squatting from level 3 to 25 to get the best possible proficiencies). You could then get UAI which would nullify all of the Kensai's downsides (except the disability to use ranged weapons) thus giving you a "free" 8 thac0, 8 dmg, 6 speed factor, and 2 AC bonuses.

Originally Posted by Klorox

Neither character is a bad one, and you really can't go wrong though.

Yep, multi-class characters are useful in BG1, and Dwarf is one of the better ones for a Fighter/Theif.

[Klorox]

1) I greatly disagree with you on the multiclassers in BG2 issue. Kits pale in comparison with what you get from a multiclasser.

2)How does a human with a 19 CON regenerate?

EDIT: BTW, you were right about only +5 HP/level from a 20 CON. At 20, regeneration is gained, and all 1's rolled for level-ups are considered 2's.

[Jordoo]

I like your character build if you have a group. Definately becomes very powerful. But if solo there is that problem of having no spell casting other than your inate abilities that you gain which are minimal. If you go with 9 int at least you can use scrolls and wands if you have tutu. Still many better builds or multi's to solo. Fighter/mage, cleric/ranger, cleric/illusionist, cleric/theif, almost any multi or dual with a cleric or mage will have an easier time especially in a game with 161,00 experiance cap. Unless of course you want to cheese through with Algernons cloak then you could solo easily with any character.

Don't get me wrong I like the build but to call it perfect, NO. I like many other builds and multi's better than yours and none of them are perfect either. The whole idea is to make it different each time and learn new tacticks based on your characters strengths or your teams strengths. A truely perfect character is no fun at all, since all stats would be 25 and they would be able to use every item and cast every spell. But would never do that since they could just spank everybody without tacking damage.

[LordTerror]

Originally Posted by Klorox

1) I greatly disagree with you on the multiclassers in BG2 issue. Kits pale in comparison with what you get from a multiclasser.

2)How does a human with a 19 CON regenerate?

EDIT: BTW, you were right about only +5 HP/level from a 20 CON. At 20, regeneration is gained, and all 1's rolled for level-ups are considered 2's.

1) Well, I disagree with you, but that is a bit off-topic.

2) Hm, you might be right... it might be 20 CON not 19. I will have to test that soon.

Originally Posted by Jordoo

I like your character build if you have a group. Definately becomes very powerful. But if solo there is that problem of having no spell casting other than your inate abilities that you gain which are minimal.

I disagree. You don't need any spells with this build. Once created, this character can solo any part of the game without using potions, reloading, or using any cheese. You would have to see it to believe it.

Originally Posted by Jordoo

Still many better builds or multi's to solo. Fighter/mage, cleric/ranger, cleric/illusionist, cleric/theif, almost any multi or dual with a cleric or mage will have an easier time especially in a game with 161,00 experiance cap.

I have tried soloing with all of those characters. None are even close to this build.

Edit: Actually, I have never tried cleric/illusionist, but I have tried cleric/mage and cleric/conjuror.

[Jordoo]

Once created you have already maxed out in experiance. I am talking about from start to finish. Your character doesn't just appear a dualed level 7 fighter level 8 theif. The character has to get there and its harder earlier on without spells, once you are at full power like I said good character. Still not perfect. None of them are. Cleric/ranger can do everything your character can due except backstab. Plus has access to all druid and cleric spells. Can summon an army of skelotons and pre buff as well as cast something as simple as doom whick makes a huge differance. Might not deal out as much damage with each hit but does plenty and has spells. Also would you get a strength modifier to damage with slings. Plus your racial enemy bonus. Yet this character is not perfect.

[kmonster]

Don't underestimate the dwarf bonus. +5 saves is 25 percent less chance to get held, charmed or outright killed.

[LordTerror]

Originally Posted by Jordoo

Once created you have already maxed out in experiance. I am talking about from start to finish. Your character doesn't just appear a dualed level 7 fighter level 8 theif. The character has to get there and its harder earlier on without spells, once you are at full power like I said good character.

Like I said twice earlier, this character is not meant to be easy to create... it is meant to be good at the end.

Originally Posted by Jordoo

Still not perfect. None of them are.

Well, that is true. No one character has every single bonus that all other characters have... they all have weaknesses. I think this build hides it's weaknesses well (by having awesome offensive capabilities), though.

Originally Posted by Jordoo

Cleric/ranger can do everything your character can due except backstab. Plus has access to all druid and cleric spells. Can summon an army of skelotons and pre buff as well as cast something as simple as doom whick makes a huge differance. Might not deal out as much damage with each hit but does plenty and has spells. Also would you get a strength modifier to damage with slings. Plus your racial enemy bonus. Yet this character is not perfect.

Yes, I agree, Cleric/ranger is a very good build. You loose some hp, 2 ac, 3 thac0, and 3 dmg bonuses, but are able to trade theif skills for cleric/druid spells. It's actually a very nice build.

Originally Posted by kmonster

Don't underestimate the dwarf bonus. +5 saves is 25 percent less chance to get held, charmed or outright killed.

Yea. I didn't realize the dwarf bonus was so much. Dwarf is definiatly better at killing groups of two or more mages.



Hm. I guess a Human Fighter/Theif is only best at two things -- dealing damage quickly and surviving physical damage attacks. With so much damage, it is able to *hide* it's weaknesses.

[Jordoo]

Hoe exactly does a cleric/ranger have worse armor class than a dualed fighter thief. Its the same given the same Dexterity. Both lose certain abilities with heavy armor but both can wear any armor and use any sheild or Ac bonus Item. Less Thaco 3? should be only onewith the same strength. Then you would get and extra from the defender sword which is +3 to hit and the best cleric weapon would be +2 to hit. Thats still only 2 difference and one to base.

Plus if you play TUTU cleric?ranger getts an automatick two in two weapon style. Add a third still have 5 prof. left can still specialize in two weapons (mace,hammer both have +2 available and staff mace is 2D4+2 damage +2 thaco.) Dual wealding would do as much if not more damage per round than your character who would have to waste three prof to dual weild. Still your backstab would be formadable so overall asuming you hit with first attack as a backstab you would dod more damage but not as much as it appears.

[LordTerror]

Originally Posted by Jordoo

Hoe exactly does a cleric/ranger have worse armor class than a dualed fighter thief. Its the same given the same Dexterity. Both lose certain abilities with heavy armor but both can wear any armor and use any sheild or Ac bonus Item. Less Thaco 3? should be only onewith the same strength. Then you would get and extra from the defender sword which is +3 to hit and the best cleric weapon would be +2 to hit. Thats still only 2 difference and one to base.

Not being able to use long sword means that you can not use the Defender (+2 AC, +3 enchantment), and the best one handed item you can use is a +2 weapon (no AC mod, +2 enchantment). The difference is 1 thac0/dmg and 2 AC. Also, multi-classed characters that include a type of fighter are restricted to a maximum of ** proficicy, which means you loose 2 thac0/dmg. The total is 2 AC, 3 thac0, and 3 dmg.

Originally Posted by Jordoo

Plus if you play TUTU cleric?ranger [...]

Obviously if you change the rules, the strategies will change.

[Jordoo]

Can't imagine sitting through BGI without tutu to speed it up. But thats off topic.

Ok I see where you are getting you AC now. But cleric ranger can cast protection from evil, defensive harmony, bless, chant and aid, to name a few basically giving it better AC and saves as well as thaco. Also if you have your bow equiped you cannot use a shield. Where as a single weapon wielding Cleric/ranger would even with the sling in one of the weapon slots. +2 large sheild is a -3 to AC. Its a hard arguement for you to make that your build could protect itself better than a cleric/ranger (who can also hid in shadows) because its not true plane and simple.

I was counting on your extra proficiency as what would give you a better base thaco. I would argue Power Of Holy Might to increase my strength and bonus to hit and damage but obviously your character has to be good to use the defender and would have that as an inate ability so thats a wash. So your build truely would dish out more damage than a cleric/ranger that much is clear. But there is always command, hold person, entangle, silence as well as many others that offset this differance.

[Jordoo]

Moving from **-*** only lowers your thaco by one. You get +1 to hit with ** and then it goes to plus +2 to hit with ***. That is a net of 2 lower on you thaco not 3. And only one to base like I said before.

[LordTerror]

Originally Posted by Jordoo

Moving from **-*** only lowers your thaco by one. You get +1 to hit with ** and then it goes to plus +2 to hit with ***. That is a net of 2 lower on you thaco not 3. And only one to base like I said before.

No, not in BG1. You are thinking of BG2 rules.

Read page 93 in your BG1 manual if you don't beleive me.

[Jordoo]

Your right I looked it up. I have honestlynot played BGI in years, I play tutu and then carry the player through to BGII.

I still prefer some sort of multi or dualed spell caster as a better all around character. It has been fun discussing with you without getting nasty and I certainly have relized how much difference there is between BGI and TUTU. But I AM STILL NEVER GOING BACK. LOL. I may just build your power character if I have the time certainly enjoyed my multi fighter/theif. Its just that this character would not be carried over to BGII since if that were the case You would want to go in the opposite direction. Like Level ten theif then dualed to fighter to continue to grow more powerful. Hmmm now thats a thought.

[LordTerror]

Originally Posted by Jordoo

Your right I looked it up. I have honestlynot played BGI in years, I play tutu and then carry the player through to BGII.

I still prefer some sort of multi or dualed spell caster as a better all around character. It has been fun discussing with you without getting nasty and I certainly have relized how much difference there is between BGI and TUTU. But I AM STILL NEVER GOING BACK. LOL. I may just build your power character if I have the time certainly enjoyed my multi fighter/theif. Its just that this character would not be carried over to BGII since if that were the case You would want to go in the opposite direction. Like Level ten theif then dualed to fighter to continue to grow more powerful. Hmmm now thats a thought.

Assuming TUTU doesn't change BG2, I would reccomend being a pure Fighter in BG1 (make sure you are neutral good or lower so you can be a thief) and dual classing to a Kensai/Thief (lvl 24/28) in BG2. It has the most proficiencies possible in the game -- 21. You can get *** in two weapon style and 9 other skills to **. The +8 dmg/thac0 you get from being a kensai is "free" once you finish dual classing to theif because you can get Use Any Item, which removes the Kensai's restrictions. A Kensai is very easy to level with a mage in the group. Since the Kensai has no armor, he receives full benefit from Spirit Armor; cast it on him after every rest. Also use Improved Haste before dificult battles. Not only is the Kensai good in BG2, but leveling a pure Fighter in BG1 is good, too.

[Jordoo]

Kensia is not a bad idea but would certainly be a theif first in BGI collect all the tomes and beet the game and start BGII. Then continue as a theif untill I had all the skill points that I wanted . Then Dual to fighter because I would rather continue to develop the warrior aspect of the character than the theif.
Especially if we are going for overall power.