First Time Player to BG

[kmonster]

I see no big problem with low con. A mage looses 2 hitpoints per level until level 10 if he has 7-14 instead of 16 con, but you gain 6 HP for each fighter level you take until level 9. 18 charisma on the other hand helps a lot in early BG. Play the prologue with 18 cha first and with 17 afterwards and you'll be surprised about how unfriendly and less rewarding those guys have become when you finish their quests (especially Hull and the guy who needs crossbow bolts).

Crossbows are weak in BG since they grant only 1 base attack per round while bows grant 2.

87/95 is quite nice. If it's worth your time rerolling for a better character is your decision. If you do so I strongly recommend putting points in longbows. If you get a roll of 89 it's worth lowering dex from 18 to 17 in order to raise con from 14 to 15. Don't overestimate the meaning of the 2nd strength value, if you raise 18/?? str by one in BG you'll always reach 19, independent of the second number.

[fable]

Originally Posted by kmonster

I see no big problem with low con. A mage looses 2 hitpoints per level until level 10 if he has 7-14 instead of 16 con, but you gain 6 HP for each fighter level you take until level 9.

You gain 6 HP for each fighter level, but you never state the constitution. What's the HP difference for a leveling fighter in BG1 who has 12 con or 18 con?

18 charisma on the other hand helps a lot in early BG. Play the prologue with 18 cha first and with 17 afterwards and you'll be surprised about how unfriendly and less rewarding those guys have become when you finish their quests (especially Hull and the guy who needs crossbow bolts).

I ran a cleric through BG1 about a year ago with a 13 charisma. Didn't notice anybody being any more unfriendly or less rewarding than when I ran a mage with a 17 charisma, a few years back. Could you please list specific instances, and the differences you found? This might be quite interesting.

87/95 is quite nice. If it's worth your time rerolling for a better character is your decision. If you do so I strongly recommend putting points in longbows.

We agree on this. Ranged attacks have more comparative value (vs melee and magic) in BG1 than in native BG2 (though some mods add new, interesting and more powerful BG2 arrow types). By that same token, Qulom, buy mage spells that can stop ranged attacks, such as Web. Follow up with Fireball and ranged attacks of your own to decimate those being held.

[KRYTON]

I've played a few times, my first time was with a Paladin, then I played as a bard, then I went to a fighter. I am currently starting again and I went back to a Paladin. I find that I am drawn back to someone who can stand toe to toe in the middle of a battle. As a bard I had to stand further back and either cast, sing or launch arrows. In the end I prefer to be in the middle of all the action and hack and slash. This time I am picking up different characters along the way. I picked up Montoran (sp), and Zxar. They are evil but since they gave me a potion to hitch a ride to Nackel I decided that it would be ok to let them tag along.
I know it is nice to see how to play different character claasses but I like to be out in front controlling the action.

[Grombag]

Originally Posted by fable

I ran a cleric through BG1 about a year ago with a 13 charisma. Didn't notice anybody being any more unfriendly or less rewarding than when I ran a mage with a 17 charisma, a few years back. Could you please list specific instances, and the differences you found? This might be quite interesting.

I'm not sure what else Hull gives you, but the guy who needs crosbow bolts gives you a dagger +1 on charisma and only 10 gp or something with cha 17? (not sure about the turning point). Only other way to get the dagger is by pickpocketing him.

[kmonster]

Originally Posted by fable

You gain 6 HP for each fighter level, but you never state the constitution. What's the HP difference for a leveling fighter in BG1 who has 12 con or 18 con?

4 HP/level. My point is that a dualclassed fighter/mage with low con can still have more HP than a mage with maximized con who is still playable, so there's no reason for bothering too much.

I ran a cleric through BG1 about a year ago with a 13 charisma. Didn't notice anybody being any more unfriendly or less rewarding than when I ran a mage with a 17 charisma, a few years back. Could you please list specific instances, and the differences you found? This might be quite interesting.

According to my experience the game always gives you the good dialogue or reward if and only if your reaction modifier of +5 or better. With normal (8-13) reputation this happens only with 18 cha, 17 isn't enough. You don't get the dagger+1 Grombag mentioned and Hull pays you less. I don't remember the speech details, but if you still have BG installed it will take only a few minutes to get shocked yourself.

[fable]

Originally Posted by kmonster

4 HP/level. My point is that a dualclassed fighter/mage with low con can still have more HP than a mage with maximized con who is still playable, so there's no reason for bothering too much.

But my point was that you can have a lot more HPs with 18 con than 12. And since a dying PC means going back to a saved game, I personally believe that high con is essential.

According to my experience the game always gives you the good dialogue or reward if and only if your reaction modifier of +5 or better. With normal (8-13) reputation this happens only with 18 cha, 17 isn't enough. You don't get the dagger+1 Grombag mentioned and Hull pays you less. I don't remember the speech details, but if you still have BG installed it will take only a few minutes to get shocked yourself.

A dagger +1is nice to have early on, certainly, but not to me at least an essential--whereas staying alive pretty much is. This is just going to have to be a matter of personal taste, but given a choice between 18 in con or cha, I don't think minor reward differences are sufficient for me to boost them over that extra bit of life keeping my character alive. But then, I also don't like reloading, since I find it spoils the roleplaying aspects of the game--so I'm certainly not typical in that respect.

[wise grimwald]

I personally would have a far lower charisma and add those points elsewhere. One reason is that being a magic user, you can cast Friends which raises Charisma when required, i.e. before buying expensive items. Of course it helps to know when high Charisma is required, and that is best discovered by experience.

[Deman]

Concerning your low constitution...
Haven't tested this myself so unsure if this actually is legit, but from what I've read you can counter this by temporarily increasing it (spells, potions) when your character is nearing a level up. This way (after leveling up) your character receives hit points based on his/her temporary constitution but gets to keep them once the boost vanquishes.
Remember though, this is considered cheating as it trashes the stat.

[kmonster]

Deman's "trick" doesn't work.

Originally Posted by wise grimwald

Of course it helps to know when high Charisma is required, and that is best discovered by experience.

You can only know when its useful to cast "friends" if you
1) hug a walkthrough
2) save,reload and retry at every dialogue
That's just what he should avoid since it will seriously harm the roleplaying. There's only one unspoiled first time.

[wise grimwald]

Originally Posted by kmonster

Deman's "trick" doesn't work.



You can only know when its useful to cast "friends" if you
1) hug a walkthrough
2) save,reload and retry at every dialogue
That's just what he should avoid since it will seriously harm the roleplaying. There's only one unspoiled first time.

I agree in part. The way I play with low charisma is to cast friends before going on a major shopping spree. Of course if Imoen is in your party, you can have her as the leader and give her Algernon's cloak, then charisma is completely unimportant.

[galtzaiLe]

@Qulom: Sorry for pseudo-hijack this thread, but i was told by mods that i should post in existing threads rather than make a new one. As i'm also starting with BG1 for the first time, and i've some doubts i thought that i might post them here. Hope this it's ok with you!

- - - - - - - - - -

Well, after reading a few F.A.Q.s and the forum for a while, i *think* that finally got how D&D second edition rules works (despite some specific issues).

As i'll go for the whole saga with un-modded installation for both BG (bugfixes only) just for the sake of playing the original content, i want to make a character that can be played through both games. Then, i'll run a second time with EasyTutu (i hope with the next release) and prolly some mods to enhance the experience.

I already decided that my second run will be with a evil Thief (already have choose the background for him), but i'm not sure on my run first char.

I like casters, battlemages more specifically, but making a Fighter in BG1 and dual-class it to Mage in BG2 feels a bit cheesy to me. I don't know why.
So i considered to make a Fighter and Dual-Class to Cleric in BG2, so i can have a decent fighter and a support class for my party (if that's even possible hehe).

This option there from kmonster seems good too:

Originally Posted by kmonster

Another option is playing a cleric since he gets more spells, HP and armor than a mage. You can also start as a human cleric in BG1 and dualclass to mage early in BG2 at level 9 to get the best of both worlds. In this case I recommend starting with 18 dex, 15-16 con, at least 15 (better 17) wis, 17 int, at least 12 str, use sling and hammer.

I'm considering it because it might be fun! :P

Also i've been reading about Ranger/Cleric multi-class. It seems that there're split thoughts about multi-classing or dual-classing this one. I'm having headache already... multi-classing was a lot easier in IWD2 hehe

Also i'm not sure that i fully understand how dual-class work in D&D 2nd edition rules (as i'm more familiar with 3rd / 3.5 rules). I found this in a F.A.Q. in GameFAQs:

Dual classing is the Human answer to Multiclassing. At level 2 or higher, the human can decide to switch to a new class. Then for a time he will be JUST that class until his new class exceeds the level of his old class. At that point your old classes' abilities return and you become similar to a Multiclass... except that you are only levelling one class now, rather than dividing your exp amongst classes.

As my english is somehow quite limited, i'm not sure if i got it right. Let's say i'm a Fighter lvl 3 and i dual-class to Mage. Now i'm just a Mage and i stop being a Fighter (not Fighter profs) until my Mage reach level 4, and just then i regain all my fighters benefits (such as proficiencies and so on) and stay as a (dual classed) Mage (so i can have a Mage that can wield long sword and such). Is this correct?

Another thing about multi / dual-classing that i don't get is this:

RANGER

           Spell Levels ---->         1   2   3

      Exp. Level    Casting Level*

           9            1             1   -   -
          10            2             2   -   -
          11            3             2   1   -
          12            4             2   2   -
          13            5             2   2   1
          14            6             3   2   1
          15            7             3   2   2
          16            8             3   3   3

          * Casting Level is the effective EXPERIENCE LEVEL the Ranger is for
            purposes of spellcasting.  If a spell is more powerful for higher
            EXP LEVELS, this is the level they're referring to, not his actual
            EXP LEVEL.

Let's say i've a Ranger(6) / Cleric(10) (total level 16) dual-classed, will i be able to cast 3/2/1 spells for the Ranger?
In other words, let's say i play with Ranger until level 8 (can't cast spells yet), and then dual-class to Priest and i get 1 Cleric levels then i will be able to cast one level one Ranger spell (an so on according that table), right?

Thanks for any advice you can give me!!

[anarchistica]

Originally Posted by Qulom

Ok...I re-rolled for about an hour and I got this:

St 18/95
dex 18
con 12
int 18
Wis 3
Ch 18
++ Crossbow
++ Two handed sword

Really good?

You don't have to roll for an hour, you can just use Gatekeeper to adjust your stats.

For a fighter in BG1, go with:

Str: 16+
Dex: 10 or 15+
Con: 15+
Int: 3
Wis: 3
Ch: 3

Total: 50

On average, you will roll 63 (10,5*6 or 3,5*18). You can easily get higher stats by rolling a bit more, even with a Fighter who was few stats that require a certain minimum amount (the game will set those automatically at no cost).

The game has items that boost all stats. First of all, there are items that permanently boost them. One for each stat, though 3 for Wis. There are belts and bracers that increase your Str and bracers that increase your Dex. In BG2 there are many Str boosting items (belts, bracers, weapons). Having a high Str isn't a requirement for BG1, especially not since you will be using missile weapons most of the time (this is a must for BG1).

So if you want a Fighter/Mage, go with a minimum:

Str: 14 (15 required to dual-class)
Dex: 10
Con: 16
Int: 16 (17 required to dual-class)
Wis: 3
Ch: 3

Total: 62

At the end of BG1, you will have:

Str: 15 (15 required to dual-class)
Dex: 11
Con: 17
Int: 17 (17 required to dual-class)
Wis: 6
Ch: 4

Total: 70

Ideally though, you'd want 18 Con, 18 Dex, 16 Str while ignoring the other stats.

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by galtzaiLe

Also i'm not sure that i fully understand how dual-class work in D&D 2nd edition rules (as i'm more familiar with 3rd / 3.5 rules). I found this in a F.A.Q. in GameFAQs:
As my english is somehow quite limited, i'm not sure if i got it right. Let's say i'm a Fighter lvl 3 and i dual-class to Mage. Now i'm just a Mage and i stop being a Fighter (not Fighter profs) until my Mage reach level 4, and just then i regain all my fighters benefits (such as proficiencies and so on) and stay as a (dual classed) Mage (so i can have a Mage that can wield long sword and such). Is this correct?

Yes, that is correct, The Fighter class is considered "inactive" until your character is one level higher in the Mage class.

Originally Posted by galtzaiLe

Another thing about multi / dual-classing that i don't get is this:

RANGER

           Spell Levels ---->         1   2   3

      Exp. Level    Casting Level*

           9            1             1   -   -
          10            2             2   -   -
          11            3             2   1   -
          12            4             2   2   -
          13            5             2   2   1
          14            6             3   2   1
          15            7             3   2   2
          16            8             3   3   3

          * Casting Level is the effective EXPERIENCE LEVEL the Ranger is for
            purposes of spellcasting.  If a spell is more powerful for higher
            EXP LEVELS, this is the level they're referring to, not his actual
            EXP LEVEL.

Let's say i've a Ranger(6) / Cleric(10) (total level 16) dual-classed, will i be able to cast 3/2/1 spells for the Ranger?
In other words, let's say i play with Ranger until level 8 (can't cast spells yet), and then dual-class to Priest and i get 1 Cleric levels then i will be able to cast one level one Ranger spell (an so on according that table), right?

In 3.5 Edition rules, each level is added to the character's cumulative level. For example, a character with four Fighter levels and four Cleric levels is considered to be an 8th level character.

However, it does not work the same way in 2nd Edition rules. A character's level is considered to be the highest level he or she has achieved in one of his or her classes. For example, a 4th level Thief dualled to a 10th level Mage is only considered to be a 10th level character for spellcasting purposes.

The computer game actually averages the two levels when the game mechanics require it to know the character's "level". For example, the game considers a 4th level Thief dualled to a 10th level Mage to be a 7th level character. This comes into effect, for example, when the game needs to determine how many monsters to spawn when the difficulty of the encounter is determined by your party's average level.

Due to software issues, multi-classed and dual-classed Rangers have extra spellcasting ability because the game is not able to to handle their spells properly according to 2nd Edition rules. Some people think the effect is too small to be noticed, but other people believe that multi-classed and dual-classed Rangers are "overpowered" because of it. To me, the answer is simple: if you don't think a character should be able to use all of the spells available to him or her, then don't use them.

A 6th level Ranger dualled to a 10th level Cleric can only cast the same number of spells as a single-class 10th level Cleric, and the character is considered to be 10th level for spellcasting purposes. However, since a Ranger has access to Druid spells, a Cleric/Ranger is able to cast all Druid spells as well as all Cleric spells. According to the rules, he or she should only be able to cast 1st through 3rd level Druid spells, but the game allows him or her to cast 4th through 7th level Druid spells as well. This gives the character the "illegal" ability to use spells like Ironskins, Insect Plague, and Nature's Beauty. If you think your character should not be able to use them, then don't use them.

I hope this helps.

[galtzaiLe]

Originally Posted by VonDondu

Yes, that is correct, The Fighter class is considered "inactive" until your character is one level higher in the Mage class.

Then i'll gain again all the fighters features. Got it.

Originally Posted by VonDondu

In 3.5 Edition rules, each level is added to the character's cumulative level. For example, a character with four Fighter levels and four Cleric levels is considered to be an 8th level character.

However, it does not work the same way in 2nd Edition rules. A character's level is considered to be the highest level he or she has achieved in one of his or her classes. For example, a 4th level Thief dualled to a 10th level Mage is only considered to be a 10th level character for spellcasting purposes.

I was adding up the levels like in 3.5 Edition rules, quite a big mistake. I don't recall reading this on the F.A.Q. My bad i guess :x

Originally Posted by VonDondu

The computer game actually averages the two levels when the game mechanics require it to know the character's "level". For example, the game considers a 4th level Thief dualled to a 10th level Mage to be a 7th level character. This comes into effect, for example, when the game needs to determine how many monsters to spawn when the difficulty of the encounter is determined by your party's average level.

I got it now. So, in the game i should average the two (or more) levels to find my current (in-game) character level.

Originally Posted by VonDondu

Due to software issues, multi-classed and dual-classed Rangers have extra spellcasting ability because the game is not able to to handle their spells properly according to 2nd Edition rules. Some people think the effect is too small to be noticed, but other people believe that multi-classed and dual-classed Rangers are "overpowered" because of it. To me, the answer is simple: if you don't think a character should be able to use all of the spells available to him or her, then don't use them.

A 6th level Ranger dualled to a 10th level Cleric can only cast the same number of spells as a single-class 10th level Cleric, and the character is considered to be 10th level for spellcasting purposes. However, since a Ranger has access to Druid spells, a Cleric/Ranger is able to cast all Druid spells as well as all Cleric spells. According to the rules, he or she should only be able to cast 1st through 3rd level Druid spells, but the game allows him or her to cast 4th through 7th level Druid spells as well. This gives the character the "illegal" ability to use spells like Ironskins, Insect Plague, and Nature's Beauty. If you think your character should not be able to use them, then don't use them.

Got it. So i won't be using a Ranger/Cleric. Just personal preference :P
Instead i'll go with a Fighter/Cleric dualled human (i think Fighter all the way through BG1 then dual to Cleric in BG2). I want to play this time with a -moderate- tank who can aid my party. I really don't care to have an über strong character, but one that can give me lots of fun and actually have a chance to beat the game.

Originally Posted by VonDondu

I hope this helps.

It does, a lot!! Thank you so much for clarifying the whole thing ;D

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by galtzaiLe

Instead i'll go with a Fighter/Cleric dualled human (i think Fighter all the way through BG1 then dual to Cleric in BG2). I want to play this time with a -moderate- tank who can aid my party. I really don't care to have an über strong character, but one that can give me lots of fun and actually have a chance to beat the game.

You should definitely play BG1 before you play BG2.

BG1 is more "primitive" in some respects than BG2. For example, you cannot choose a kit (i.e., a specialized class such as a Berserker, Wizard Slayer, or Kensai). But when you import your character into BG2, you can choose a kit. I think you should consider playing a Berserker dualled to a Cleric in BG2. You will lose the ability to specialize in slings (does it make any difference?) but gain the Enrage ability, which will protect your character from Imprisonment, among other things.

Either way, a Fighter dualled to a Cleric or a Berserker dualled to a Cleric is a very powerful character if you use all of the buffing spells available (Armor of Faith, Righteous Magic, Draw Upon Hoiy Might, etc.), and you will have a very good chance to win the game. When your character becomes a 34th level Cleric, Turn Undead will destroy (or control, if your character is evil) any undead monster in the game, including Demi-Liches. You can also use offensive spells such as Glyph of Warding (the "Holy Hand Grenade"), Holy Smite, Harm, Finger of Death, Storm of Vengeance, etc. Summon Deva is also one of the most powerful summoning spells in the game.

A multi-class Fighter/Cleric can acquire High Level Abilities from the warrior pool as well as the Cleric pool, so I think a character like that is even stronger at higher levels (but the Turn Undead ability is not as effective due to having a lower Cleric level). For example, you can make use of Greater Whirlwind and Greater Deathblow. But the real power lies in the ability to "stack" the various effects. For example, you can use Armor of Faith and Hardiness simultaneously, and you can use Energy Blades while Critical Strike is in effect. (Cast Energy Blades first, and then cast Critical Strike before you attack.)

Is that too powerful for your taste? If so, you can always just walk up to the monsters and hit them instead of doing anything fancy.