Best NPC Archer: Kivan or Coran?

[Darmort]

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I think a character with 19 Dexterity gets the same missile attack bonus as a character who has 20 Dexterity. So here's what I recommend if you want the best archer. Create an Elven Fighter with 19 Dexterity and put as many points in Bows as you can. I can't remember if the +1 bonus for longswords and longbows was implemented in BG1, but an enchanted longbow might be the way to go. He'll be better than Coran when he's 6th Level.

Correct (Checked my old and battered Baldur's Gate manual).
So overall, a custom made Elf Bow-Fighter is superior to this Coran, who is in turn superior to the always brilliant Kivan (despite Kivan having better fluff).

[Klorox]

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Originally Posted by Darmort Correct (Checked my old and battered Baldur's Gate manual).

Although I think the +1 to hit was implemented, don't use the manual as your source.

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Originally Posted by Darmort So overall, a custom made Elf Bow-Fighter is superior to this Coran, who is in turn superior to the always brilliant Kivan (despite Kivan having better fluff).

Yes, and you can reach **** in Bow in an unmodded game. That's very good and powerful, but the point of this thread is who the better archer is of the two NPCs. As a matter of fact, you can create a better version of just about any of the NPCs.

[DaemonJ]

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Originally Posted by Thrifalas Just cause the manual says so doesn't mean it's true. Havn't you wondered why it's 20x easier to play through the game with all character equipped with bows than melee? Or why a 1d6 (or whatever) bow can hit for 10 damage?

Regardless of whether Imoen, Khalid, or any other character was shooting a bow, I have never done more than 6 points of damage unless it was an enchanted arrow. Even then any additional damage was the equal of the enchantment.

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Originally Posted by Thrifalas Untill the opposite is proven; yes. strenght matters.

You are certainly free to believe what you want.

[LordTerror]

Coran has better dexterity, better bow mastery, and can use all of the same items that Kivan can. As far as archery goes, Coran is definatly better.

[Rav]

Kivan. He gets the extra 1/2 an attack per round about half the game sooner. Without TotSC, Coran doens't get this extra attack at all, since he will be capped at level 6 fighter.

Discussing Thaco is meaningless. Kivan hits more often because he shoots more often (that's why he gets more kills, as was mentioned in a previous post). It's like having a permanent half-haste.

I play Tutu however, so Kivan just blows Coran completely out of the water, since Kivan gets BG2's archer kit.

[Jordoo]

Quite simple CORAN is better.
*** in bow
20 dex
also has two side quests

I do love KIVAN but coran is a better archer bottom line.
If you can have them both you will really tare it up.

[Rav]

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Originally Posted by Jordoo Quite simple CORAN is better. *** in bow 20 dex also has two side quests I do love KIVAN but coran is a better archer bottom line. If you can have them both you will really tare it up.

So what do you think about the extra half an attack per round that Kivan gets (without TotSC/ about half the game earlier with TotSC)?

Rav

[Jordoo]

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Originally Posted by Rav So what do you think about the extra half an attack per round that Kivan gets (without TotSC/ about half the game earlier with TotSC)? Rav

Coran gets it too albeit later on, but he comes with ***BOW right away witch is an advantage to hit. I have played with both in the same group as archers and even though Kivan had more time with the group Coran caught up with him in kills by the end. Thats my real live game experiance.

Deffinately not knocking Kiven though he rocks!

[Rav]

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Originally Posted by Jordoo Coran gets it too albeit later on, but he comes with ***BOW right away witch is an advantage to hit. I have played with both in the same group as archers and even though Kivan had more time with the group Coran caught up with him in kills by the end. Thats my real live game experiance. Deffinately not knocking Kiven though he rocks!

I only recently acquired TotSC, so for me Coran and kivan were both people that would pretty much hit every shot. But Kivan would get more and earlier shots in (because he had 3 attacks in the first round, and Coran only 2).

I definitely like it that in TuTu the straight Archer is a better archer than a (cheating ) Elf F/T though.

Rav

[TheAmazingOopah]

I voted for Kivan, and I can't back it up with witty mathimatical proof, but can only talk out of my own experience. It's basicly just like this that when I direct Kivan to shoot at a basic monster, the beast is dead before you can say "Callahan", and probably would've died twice if that would be possible. With Coran, not only do I have the feeling that he misses more often, but also that his hits are less lethal. I like Coran as a character and a thief, but when it comes to sniping, leave it to the fellow with the .44 Magnum.

[Andrew Stone]

I voted for Coran - *** in bow and dex 20. Also, it's relatively straight forward to pick up Coran early enough for him to play a major part in the game. I'm currently playing an Elf fighter (archer). Blew through the early parts of the game ignoring pretty much any side quest (except rescuing Dynaheir) that didn't run out in front of me waving its arms and shouting 'do me now' and ran as fast as I could through Cloakwood to get Coran. He's now my party thief (bye bye Imoen) and has more kills and a higher %age of party kills and exp. than Kivan does, even though he's been in the party for a shorter period of time.

Having said that, they both rock, and my party which leans very heavily towards bows (myself, Kivan, Coran, plus Dynaheir and Branwen with slings and spells and Minsc as a tank to keep the monsters back) doesn't seem to be having any real problem with anything. Except greater basilisks. But that's what summon skeleton is for.

[Walen]

Isn't it that in BG rangers get a hidden bonus to bows because they cannot use two weapons?

[CFM]

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Originally Posted by Walen Isn't it that in BG rangers get a hidden bonus to bows because they cannot use two weapons?

Hmmm... not sure I've heard that one before. I'm thinking it is Icewind Dale that Rangers get a bonus, and it's if they're using a one-handed weapon without a shield. Not too sure though.

[roller1234]

Voted Coran.

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Originally Posted by Rav Kivan. He gets the extra 1/2 an attack per round about half the game sooner. Without TotSC, Coran doens't get this extra attack at all, since he will be capped at level 6 fighter. Discussing Thaco is meaningless. Kivan hits more often because he shoots more often (that's why he gets more kills, as was mentioned in a previous post). It's like having a permanent half-haste. I play Tutu however, so Kivan just blows Coran completely out of the water, since Kivan gets BG2's archer kit.

I have to disagree with that. First, the AddOn is part of the game, and pretty much to be expected to be installed. Also Kivan is a ranger. He gets to lvl7 @75k exp, Coran @128k exp thats 53k difference. Considering i've reached values of 250k exp in a full party, the point of "half the game" seems flawed. Second passage relies on the above flawed assumption.

Also installing mods you can get any class to be anything the mod designer wishes. Doesnt have anything to do with BG1 though.

CFM
Kivan is an elf and gets +1 thac0 to bows. Still not enough though. Coran will have 21 dex, and has benefits of an entire additional class, a thief, which incidentally synergizes very well with 21 dex.

[Jordoo]

roller1234. Coran is also an Elf and gets that same bonus. I voted for Coran long ago and still think its pretty evident that he is a better archer than Kivan.