[Siberys]

Fourth, only core books? Dead easy. Three builds: Cleric 20, Druid 20, Wizard 20. Two of those can be perfectly viable melee builds. Only goes to show that the splattiness starts out with Core.

Splat is an unneeded supplemental source book, therefore core books are automatically not considered splat.

I've given my reasons as to why I think psionics are overpowered, but the debate ended because my opinion was apparently wrong by any standards, even though opinions aren't actually right or wrong, they are simply debatable.

My opinion is that Psions are essentially wizards with less limitations on how to use your spells, no caps on damage, and the ability to use any energy in many of the powers just to suit the situation. A wizard that has prepared a fireball and goes up against a fire elemental is screwed, but not a psion even if it is the exact same level spell.

I say 32 is absurd because every single creature in the monster manual that does not have a character description to it is created using 25 points as well. Granted, Planetouched, Ogres, goblins, kobolds, and even hill giants and mind flayers don't use these rules as they have a template for creating a character with it, but everything else does not. 32 is not absurd, true, but this is for the casual gamer who doesn't get a lot of time to play and usually wants to play as much as he can without fear of death. 25 however, is for true RPG fans, as it presents an equilibrium between party and enemies, and a 4th level party taking down a 7th level creature IS challenging, whereas it's a piece of cake with a 4th level party using 32 points.

It was my mistake on the XP penalty, I forgot about the highest class rule for humans.

Expanded Psionics Handbook, which has nearly core-status since it's SRD material.

Being SRD material doesn't make it near core material, not by a longshot. It's an open gaming license thing, not a core rules thing. That's why most SRD's even separate XPH from the "core rules" because XPH is not required to play. The only three books required to play the game have always been and always will be the players handbook, dungeon masters guide, and monster manual, there is nothing else necessary thus why every other book is NOT core and each one lists on the back cover that you "need the core books" to play using these rules.

Furthermore, it has no basis to say that every optimized character is roleplayed bad. The two are completely unrelated.

Exactly, both are unrelated, that is why you choose one or the other when you game. Are you a roll player or a roleplayer, there's a tremendous difference for that. The bad thing about it though is that there is a difference, and there shouldn't be. Having a character that's diplomatic and good with a sword is entirely possible, but nobody makes them that way anymore, at least in stereotypes.

As Gawain previously noted, splatbooks are the only way to optimize aside from Druid/Cleric/Wizard 20.

This is the logic that makes D&D less of a roleplaying adventure and more of a contest of who's a better fighter, and once the question has been resolved there's no point to play the rest of the game. It's much like in world of warcraft when people only want to fight each other and not play the quests of the game. Optimized isn't a word that should ever be used in the game of D&D, there's no point to playing if your sole purpose is to be the best wizard, or cleric, or fighter or any other class, rather than simply be a wizard, cleric, fighter or another class.

Optimization is what's destroying the entertainment to the game.