[Magrus]

Originally Posted by ch85us2001

@ Mag: There is a difference between humans and animals. No matter how you try to ... classify them with us, theyre different. Where I was raised, we had a mutt tied up on a chain in the back yard. That being said, my Chiauaua wants to sit on my lap at the moment . . .

Not in my mind, and let me do a little creative exercise for you. Let's replace the word "mutt" with "teenager" and see what you think of your phrase?

1. Where I was raised, we had a mutt tied up on a chain in the back yard.
2. Where I was raised, we had a teenager tied up on a chain in the back yard.

Now, most people have nothing wrong with #1 and find it to be perfectly acceptable. However, if you said #2, most people would freak out and consider you to be a horribly cruel, demented person, yes? Why is it that people view the situations different based solely on the difference of what species is chained up?

Originally Posted by Chimaera182

Not that an IQ test really determines one's intelligence. But that's neither here nor there.

Granted, it is a simple measurement of how a person processes specific types of information in a specific manner at what speed. It was simply made to be used as in my hypothetical example which came after that, and you left out.

@Magrus
Attention americans: Don't be offended about the next. It's just the icecold truth. It has been researched.

Do you think it's a great achievement to be smarter in an IQ test than most of americans? Maybe you haven't heard but americans are not the smartest people in the world. Why do you think there are so many laws and so many lists with any item you buy of what not do with it?(there are also numerous other things that americans have done which are not so smart,
like putting a cat in to a micro) But I'm not here to insult americans.

No, I don't. I have heard, people are idiots. *shrugs* I was born with this brain, everything was incredibly easy for me in school until I ran into my problems with insomnia.

And again you're twisting and turning my words upside down, I mean do you just want to create conflict and conversation deliberately or do you honestly think I am an awful and disgusting human being?

Hmm, yes, and yes again. The purpose of this thread was to discuss things, hence the conversation. Differing views cause conflict of interest and an argumentative discusses ensues. Also, I do so hope my personal feelings for you don't offend you too greatly.

From what you wrote I'm beginning to think that you honestly believe we're not so much different from animals and humans and animals should be (almost?)considered as equals. I presume you also believe in evolution theory.

*nods* You're a quick one!

Look despite what you're trying to tell me humans and animals are incomparable. Animals can't tell right from wrong, humans have free will, Animals act on instinct. Animals, with few exceptions, notably cetaceans and simians, do not have a sense of self as do humans, humans have the ability to conceptualize, animals do not as evidenced time and time again. Humans have sex for pleasure, animals do not with the exception of dolphins and Pygmy chimpanzees. This has been proven time and time again. Animals don't murder out of lust or greed, but in defense of young and territory, and on instinct alone, not premeditation. The differences go on and on.

You may think that you can be born as an animal, well I don't, I believe animals don't have a soul.
At least not the kind of soul that humans have. We aren't just brain, heart and body.

That's your viewpoint. However, animals do know right from wrong. They just don't see "right" and "wrong" in the same manner as we do. Placing your personal view of the world as the only view to be accepted by each and every species doesn't quite work well. For example, I am fairly certain the majority of species of animals feel is incredibly wrong for one species to claim huge areas of land as their own and kill off anything else that comes onto it. Yet, humans think it is perfectly acceptable. Just because you are incapable of understanding and communicating with another species does not make it incapable of basic intellectual reasoning and making judgement calls based on wants, needs and instincts.

As far as humans having the freedom of choice and animals not, who informed you of this? From what I've noticed, birds fly wherever the hell they wish to, not where I tell them.

I do believe they have a soul yes, why wouldn't it be possible for them to have one if you believe humans have one? Because a book told you so? Did anyone take the time to learn to communicate with a goat and ask him whether or not he had a soul? Or was it just assumed because the goat can't speak the same language as the person who founded that belief, they didn't have one?

Humans stand above and apart from the animal world, which “we enter as lords of the earth bearing strange powers of terror and mercy alike.” - Matthew Scully

Did you just qoute an X-Files character as a source in a serious discusson?

Lets put it this way if an animal is afraid of a dungeon it would never go there, but if a human is afraid of a dungeon he can decide to there anyway.
Humans can control themselves despite instincs but animals are controlled by their instincs. To animals there is just breeding and surviving but to humans there's much more to it.

That is nonsensical garbage. Have you ever actually taken the time to pay attention to what animals do? I have a cat, who is deathly afraid of the vacuum my mother owns. She runs away from it when it is being moved about the house. However...if it is sitting in the closet and not moving for an extended period of time, she slowly works up the nerve to go up to it and inspect it. This shows the capability for my cat to use reason in order to avoid something she feels is threatening when it is moving as well as notice that it is not moving and to ignore her fears in an attempt to better understand what it is.

You seem to believe that humans are some sort of magical beings who naturally know better than other species. YOU didn't know crap about reality until you were instructed on what each and everything you do know is. You didn't know how to go to the bathroom without making a mess all over yourself, feed yourself, dress yourself, or walk without someone to teach you. You couldn't read or communicate effectively until someone taught you. If I took a human baby and simply fed and washed it, and taught it nothing until it was an adult, that person would be unable to talk, read, walk, dress himself, feed himself, or support himself in any manner. He would simply lay there on the floor, scream for food, mutter incomprehensibly, mess himself, and attempt to seek out attention from someone else in order to find comfort and amusement. Which...is about the same as a dog, right?