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Originally Posted by Brother None  <snip>
Georgia also ignored an ultimatum regarding Abkhazia. Russia called for peace as soon as they felt Georgia was sufficiently humiliated to end all fighting. Nothing more, nothing less.<snip> |
Russia also kept on the fighting - bombing Gori and Tblisi and surrounding villages without military value - after Georgia said they wanted peace and had pulled out all its troops.
So it is one thing to "call for peace" via diplomacy, and another to actually accept/initiate the peace and stop ones military actions against civilians.
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Originally Posted by Brother None <snip>
It is unknown what exactly happened, but by most accounts these reports are false.<snip> |
Perhaps, but so could the Russian reports of Georgia being the aggressor in the last instance be. Much of this comes down to point of view, because as I've also stated myself - the information is sketchy at best and no doubt subject to large amount of spin from both parties.
That is why I do not simply buy the "Russian Good Guys" one bit because their press is subject to a lot of control and track record of recent actions shows Russia is not shy of invading countries and inflicting large civilian casualties.
The situation is more complex then just "pro-Georgia" or "pro-Russia" as you well know.
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Originally Posted by Brother None <snip>
This is a poor reflection of reality in Russia. Russia is not a dictatorship. In system, it comes close to delegated democracy with heavily centralized purposes. No need to over-simplify.<snip> |
It is not a poor reflection in my book. Putin and the regime in Russia has in recent time displayed behaviour and actions not shy of other dictators in history and enforced a lot of government control over media and the like.
Russia is currently asserting itself as thee power in its region and woe to any nation who dares to disagree.
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Originally Posted by Brother None <snip>
Now it is easy to fall for the Russophobic line and think they wish to claim Georgia. Believe me, that is the last thing on their mind. Russia is well familiar with the unstable and dangerous nature of the Caucasus and has no intention of expanding their existing problems. What Russia wants is a return to the status quo for South-Ossetia and Abkhazia, possibly with further independence for the provinces but they have no interest in taking these provinces, let alone providing them independence.
What Russia also wants is a friendly government in Georgia, kind of like how the US has always treated communist Cuba. It's true, Russia has absolutely no interest in whether or not this is a democratic government, and at the end of the day it's easier to have long-term partnerships with autocratic governments. But that's real-politics, it's the same thing the US has always done in South America, and it'd be a bit hypocritical for the international community to condemn that, no matter how easily the public may believe it.
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That would be a whole lot more convincing if it weren't for Chechnya.
As I see it there is no doubt that Russia would like puppets in the surroinding nations, even if they do not want to control them USSR-like. Their current actions however only alienate those countries more and more though.
Look at Ukraine and Poland, the Baltic.
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Originally Posted by Brother None <snip>
Still, I'm not in favour of it, and would rather not see Georgia return to its pre-Rose Revolution days. Neither would I like seeing another puppet of the US installed in Georgia either. It'd be nice if the next president of Georgia was someone who had Georgian, rather than US or Russian, interests at heart and realised a good-neighbour policy was the best way to deal with Russia. But perhaps that is wishful thinking.
<snip> |
No doubt, but as you know - that will be all but impossible.
The only thing this would have sparked basically - is expand Russian territories and spark more nationalistic and thus anti-Russian feelings in Georgia and other regional countries. Clearly visible in the statements that for example Ukraines leaders have made in the last couple of days.
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Originally Posted by Brother None <snip>
Regardless, Saakashvili shows what happens if you start arming someone in an unstable region of the world. The arming of the Georgian army by the US was nothing but a blatant powergrab on the border of Russia, and Russia has shown they will not accept this. That does not mean they are to be blamed for this war, all they are to be blamed for is not accepting Georgia as a US puppet-nation. No shock there.<snip> |
I find this one very strange. You acknowledged the fact that Russia have strong motives for escalating the conflict, yet dismiss it as "false". It is entirely unconceivable in lieu of other actions Russia have performed over the last decade or so. Few have ever stated that Georgia is guilt-free, and I for sure have not.
However Russia does not have clean hands in this or in many other situations, that much is clear. Russia is not the liberator they try to claim to be.
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Originally Posted by Brother None <snip>
What oil and gas? Georgia barely has any oil or gas.
The "where is the money" question is not answered by oil. The US foolishly believed they could circumvent their need for Russia by involving Georgia, without considering the country's history of instability, and Russian is unwilling to accept that. But that is as much a question of spheres of influence as it is of oil or gas. |
The sphere of influence in that region is very much made up by money. Russian pipelines are threatened by non-Russian pipelines, whether people would like to see it or not. So while Georgia does not have oil, it have a very economical strategic location, which Russia doesn't like. That is no doubt the only reason the US and most of (entire?) west is interested in that piece of dirt and why they are so close to NATO after so short a time.
Also the sphere of influence thing - is also a case of how many countries Russia is willing to have "peace keeping" forces in. I'm sure certain countries in the region wonder when they are next if they disagree with Russia or upsets them. Heck they keep sending military planes close to other nations national airspace, just to "show" force. Including this country and other Scandinavian countries. Russia is not a peace loving country when viewing the ruling regime.
And again - I'm personally not defending Georgia in anyway. They have their part no doubt, both in the current one and historically.
But downplaying Russia's role and portraying them remotely as saviour of people in the region is sounding so hollow given all the actions of Russia over the last long period of time. Russia's hands are very bloody as well and their blame in this is deserved.
Had Russia cared about the "minorities" in such situations as this, they wouldn't have opposed a similar solution in Kosovo and they wouldn't eradicate people in Chechnya.
I just wait for the next country Russia decides to keep the peace in......